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silverfoxesclub-digest In this issue:
-A reminder ------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 12:48:36 -0800
Subject: A reminder
One of the hallmarks of netiqutte on
an e-mail list is snipping or editing
previous postings you are referencing
or referring to in your own posting.
In other words, post your comments
on someone's posting and include only
enough of his posting to remind us
of what he said so we will understand
what you are talking about. Chop off
any parts of it that do not relate
to your point.
Thanks.
Ben Boxer
Subject: NYC Dads and Lads Saturday Brunch Summary
Hello all,
The dads and lads brunch was a huge success today. There were a total of
eight participants, 6 dads and 2 lads, which included four new dads.
Conversation regarding anything imaginable, ranging from who you are, what
you do, to even a possible mentoring between a dad and a lad on career
paths. There was also talk about ways to get the word out about this
group to get more people involved and attend some of the socials.
Food was very nice, even though each item in the brunch special had a egg
element to it which did not help one of the lads since he is a vegan, and
a friendly crowd.
Due to scheduling constraints by those who help organize these events, the
next NYC Dads and Lads social will occur on Thursday, December 7th at the
Monster Bar (80 Grove St., just off Sheridan Square), starting at 6:00pm,
happy hour. We're planning to gather in the back near the banquette and
mirrored corner, after the end of the bar, near the piano.
Hope to see you there.
Edward
PS - If you wish to be included in our regular email notices (which
includes planning of events and summaries), please email me directly.
Subject: Re: A reminder
At 12:48 PM 11/11/00, Ben wrote in part:
One of the hallmarks of netiquette on
an e-mail list is snipping or editing
previous postings you are referencing
.. snip ...
Chop off any parts of it that do not relate
to your point.
Dear Ben Landers,
I need some advice from an expert. Sometimes I read messages to which I
respond in my own mind by wanting to chop off some body parts of the
sender. Does netiquette countenance such responses?
Hugs,
Subject: Us Americans
This is an international list, but the
U.S. presidential race is a matter of
consequence everywhere. The U.S.
President is often spoken of as the
"leader of the free world." That statement
may be rather an anachronism since the
fall of the Soviet empire, but its essence
still obtains in the interest accorded this
election around the globe. The U.S.A.,
despite its faults and its corruptions in
government and elsewhere, still offers
something distinct from most other
nations, which attracts immigrants to
its shores.
In the popular story about
Anna Leonowens and her tutoring of the
children of the King of Siam in the 19th
century, there is a scene in which she
discovers the map of the world used
to teach the children geography. At its
center, dominating the page, is Siam,
outlandishly huge in proportion to all
other countries. The map is, of course,
a chauvinistic interpretation of Siam's
place in the world.
In the 20th century,
nearly all atlases of the world printed
in the United States placed the U.S.A
at the center of the spread, requiring
that the eastern hemisphere drop off
the edges of either side of the page(s).
Maps printed in other countries
employed another perspective which
displayed the world in a more balanced
manner, with the U.S.A moved away from
the center.
I am not really speaking of pages here,
but of mentalities. All of us, in each nation,
is guilty, as it were, of chauvinism to
one degree or another. We Americans
have plenty of it to spare. We are deeply
self-absorbed as a nation, but we are
also servants of ideals which are global.
For those members of this list who are
not United Statesians, please forgive us
our intensity in American matters, but,
as one non-American pointed out today,
although most of us here ARE
Americans, there are lots of us who are
NOT.
Let's all try to remember that. I include
international news and comments, etc.,
when possible in an effort to serve
everyone here. I also invite you
"internationals" to give us some of your
own cultural shots for a bit of balance.
There are exciting things happening
everywhere to talk about. Let's buzz.
Ben Boxer
It must be sad for gay Roman
Catholics to see such a constant flow
of homophobia streaming from the
Vatican. Given the homophobic
attitudes of most religions (Christian
and otherwise) today, I
would find it very difficult to
maintain a formal relationship with
any of them.
Perhaps it is a sign, if such signs have
meaning at all, that one's connection
to concepts of divinity should be
individual rather than collective, like
Buddha sitting under a tree and
working out the problems of his
salvation alone, or Jesus in the
wilderness for forty days communing
with his own concept of deity, or
Moses on Sinai.
Most great religious leaders are
introspective, developing or
discovering precepts within
themselves, no matter what or whom
they identify as the source. It is their
followers who communalize the
precepts and put them to social use
as "church." Perhaps the present
Pope would be more effective among
non-Catholics if he led a regime as
inclusive and loving in practice as it
is in theory -- truly the "Mother Church."
There is a very old joke about the
monk found in his cell crumpled over
a table and weeping so profusely that
his tears were dissolving the ancient
holy document he had been
translating. "Why do I weep?" he
related when asked. "Because I have
come to the end of a long life
devoted to a god whom I thought
required me to be celibate to get into
Heaven, and now I discover that the
word "celibate" was a mistranslation
fifteen hundred years ago. We were
not commanded to be celibate. We
were told to CELEBRATE!"
As for the Vatican, perhaps they
should re-translate some of their
more hateful dogma and try harder
to love their neighbors as they quite
obviously love themselves. Their
attitude is close to that of a re-born
Christian whom I used to know. He
turned against all of his friends after
his re-conversion, several of whom had
rescued his sorry ass from trouble on
more than one occasion, and when
asked why, explained that "they
don't know the Lord the way I do."
To which I say, Amen!
Headline: (Reuters Intl. News,
11/11/00)
Text:
Father Gino Concetti, writing in the
Vatican newspaper L'Osservatore
Romano, said such laws ``disfigure
the divine project of matrimony,
damage the family and produce
negative effects on society and on
new generations.''
The editorial was entitled: ``It is not
permissible to legitimize a 'moral
disorder'.''
The ruling red-green coalition voted
unanimously in the Bundestag lower
house for legislation which allows for
gay weddings, where same-sex
partners can register their
relationship at state registry offices.
The law, which is due to come into
force next year, gives gay married
couples the same pension
entitlements as heterosexual couples,
and gives foreigners in homosexual
relationships with Germans the right
to residency.
Concetti, a moral theologian whose
views are close to those of Pope
John Paul (news - web sites), said the
Catholic Church considered the
family, based on a man and woman
united in marriage, the cornerstone
of society.
The Vatican newspaper said it was
not right to try to introduce any type
of surrogate for the family.
The Catholic Church teaches that
homosexual tendencies are not sinful
but homosexual acts are.
The conservative opposition in
Germany slammed the decision and
promised to fight it.
Subject: Fw: Re protest:
The following is a submission to the list by
a Roman Catholic priest who is gay and is
a close friend of mine. I have posted for
him before. He is very smart and wonderfully
entertaining. Too bad there aren't more
like him. Hmmmm. Maybe there are.
His posting follows:
Thanks for the posting of good news about Soulforce's protest to our
Catholic Bishops at their D.C. meeting--what a great idea! If you think it
useful and appropriate. when you have time, please post the following
semi-anonymous note to the group--from your priest friend. If I sign it,
you
know it is quite possible that I would have my preaching license revoked.
Then how can I teach RCs how to love and accept gays and lesbians?
The basic problem facing the RC church today in re homosexuality right now
is
the dilemma of (1) declaring that gays/lesbians are not evil but must be
celibate while at the same time insisting that (2) celibacy is a pure gift
of
God. This effectively orders God to give the gift of celibacy to all gays
and lesbians, which assuredly He has not.
In fact, God doesn't seem to follow any of our orders!
This dilemma has been recognized by a number of bishops very quietly and
privately. To expect them to change (or to have a sudden general conversion
to openness and honesty in this matter) is foolish. The issue of
homosexuality in the churches will not be resolved very soon. This does not
mean that we must sit back and do nothing, say nothing, die quietly and
hopelessly. I believe that God calls all people to love as best they can.
In Christian theology, God is love, so surely if two people love one another
and dedicate their lives to each other, God is present in healthy gay
relationships too! And many more gay relationships are healthy than folks
realize.
I would add that many Catholics, including ordained priests, do not accept
the current teaching of the Catholic Church regarding homosexuality. I am
one. With a surprising number of other priests, we quietly encouraged our
gay brothers and sisters to respect themselves with or without "approval" by
bishops and priests. This does not mean that we are outside the church, we
just disagree with the hierarchy on the issue. It would be wonderful if
more
of us could speak out, but the Vatican beurocrats who dominate the Catholic
Church would simply silence us, demote us below any position of influence,
and render us completely ineffective in combating the teaching quietly.
This approach, I know, meets with disdain from many of my brothers and
sisters in the gay/lesbian community--but we need to protect and encourage
those who are working to change the teaching. After all, as Rev. White
reminds us, in the USA alone there are over 62 million RCs, over a billion
in
the world. When this group changes its heart to gays/lesbians, it could
become the best friend of g/l people. Pipe dream? History indicates
amazing
changes over many centuries in the Church in all its parts. What Soulforce
is doing is of God. Thanks.
Subject: Re: Vatican Blasts German Homosexual Rights Law
Hey guys, I have a great idea! Why not have Dr. Laura as the next Pope?
Her beliefs are right on target, and she could bring out the most hateful
character flaws in both Christians and Jews. What a unifying force she'd
be! And she's a woman!
Bob and Harley
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