| NOTE: Some postings may have been deleted at the discretion of Ben
Boxer. Erotic pictures posted on the regular version of the list are automatically
deleted from the digest and are archived separately. Viewing them requires
a password available only to members. Profiles posted to the list are
also moved into a separate viewing area, but do not require a password.
Click here to browse through
them.
Silverfoxesclub-digest In this issue: -Gays Go Straight??? (15)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Here's an article I read today in the NY Times and I'll like to share it
with the list: A psychiatrist at Columbia University who contends that the mental health profession has "totally bought the idea that once you are gay you cannot be changed" will report today that some "highly motivated" gays can become heterosexual. The researcher, Dr. Robert Spitzer, said his study was based on 45-minute telephone interviews with 143 men and 57 women who had sought help to change their sexual orientation. He and his colleagues found that 66 percent of the men and 44 percent of the women had achieved "good heterosexual functioning," he said. "If somebody wants to change and it's not because they are just responding to pressure, it shouldn't be automatically assumed that it's irrational or giving in to society," Dr. Spitzer said in an interview. But the findings, to be described today in New Orleans as part of a symposium at the American Psychiatric Association's annual meeting, conflict with those of another study also to be presented at the same session. That study, by two psychologists in New York, found that of 202 homosexual subjects who had received therapy to change their sexual orientation, 178 reported that their efforts "failed," many were harmed by the attempt to change and only 6 achieved what the researchers called "a heterosexual shift." Dr. Spitzer's study was criticized by gay rights groups, which noted that most subjects in the research study had been recruited through groups that condemn homosexuality, like Exodus, a Christian ministry that describes itself on its Web site as promoting the message of `freedom from homosexuality through the power of Jesus Christ.' " "It's snake oil, it's not science," David Elliot, the communications director of the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force, a lobbying group in Washington, said of the study. The study has not been published or submitted for professional review. Scientists do not know what determines whether someone becomes heterosexual or homosexual. But most believe that biology plays a strong role in sexual orientation. And most mental-health organizations have passed resolutions discouraging the use of so-called reparative therapies intended to change homosexuals into heterosexuals, saying no scientific evidence exists to show they are effective. Dr. Spitzer led the task force that in 1973 removed homosexuality from the official list of mental disorders contained in the psychiatric association's diagnostic manual. But he said he decided that a study was needed after talking with protesters objecting to the association's policy discouraging such therapies. "It occurred to me that maybe the general consensus, which was that the behavior can be resisted but sexual orientation couldn't be changed, was wrong," Dr. Spitzer said. Still, he added that the number of homosexuals who could successfully become heterosexual was likely to be "pretty low." And he conceded that the subjects in the study were "unusually religious" and were not necessarily representative of most gays and lesbians in the United States. Of those who participated in the study, 78 percent had spoken publicly in favor of efforts to convert homosexuals to heterosexuality; 93 percent said religion was "extremely" or "very" important in their lives. About 40 percent said that before they decided to change their orientation they had been exclusively attracted to partners of the same sex. Dr. Spitzer said the subjects expressed different reasons for wanting to become heterosexual. They included the feeling that a gay "lifestyle" was "not emotionally satisfying" (81 percent of subjects); the belief that their religion conflicted with being gay (79 percent of subjects); and the desire to get married or to stay married (67 percent of the men, 35 percent of the women). Some subjects . 11 percent of the men and 37 percent of the women . Dr. Spitzer said, reported being entirely free of homosexual feelings or sexual fantasies in the year before they were interviewed. But 29 percent of the men and 63 percent of the women said they were "only slightly bothered" by such feelings. The researchers defined "good heterosexual functioning," as having been in a "loving and emotionally satisfying heterosexual relationship" for the year leading up to the interview, having engaged in satisfying heterosexual sex at least monthly and having never or rarely thought of same-sex partners during heterosexual sex. In contrast, Dr. Ariel Shidlo and Dr. Michael Schroeder, both psychologists in private practice in Manhattan, found that the vast majority of the subjects in their study, who were recruited through the Internet and direct mailings to groups advocating reparative therapy, reported failure in their efforts to change through reparative therapies. Their study has also not yet been published or submitted for professional review. Dr. Schroeder said 18 subjects who deemed themselves "successes" in becoming heterosexuals "don't fit into what the public sees as success." "They were celibate or they continued to really struggle with homosexual desire or behavior," he said. Many subjects, Dr. Schroeder said, had invested 5 to 15 years in the therapies, and when they were not successful experienced "an inordinate sense of loss." After reading this article, the question that I have is, can a gay man really change?
Regards,
Ben Boxer responds enthusiastically: Yes, usual load of rubbish claiming that the right treatment can make a gay person straight. Seemed to be based on 'success' cases of people put forward by anti gay religious groups. Read the full story on the website and post comments stating how ridiculous this is. Add your voice to the sound of the crowd!
Hugs, The researchers defined "good heterosexual functioning," as having...engaged in satisfying heterosexual sex at least monthly ... If any of these "converted" gays were having sex only once a month, how effective was that conversion? They didn't like hetero sex very much, did they? Even tired old men like me can do it happily more than once per month.
George of Boston (Boston Bill) Yes, Thomas, I have two questions. What percentage of well motivated hetroids are able to change themselves into gays with the proper treatment? What percentage have relapsed (gone back to being hetroid, sick as that is) after 5 years.
George of Boston (Boston Bill)
George: Even the doc sounded "tentative" about his results, if the quotes attributed in the article are to be accurate... Better to see this as lousy research and protocol than take umbrage at his so-called "research".
Bad science is bad science...
Howdy, y'all!
just me, a listfriend,,,tim!!! ;-) I don't have to question anything! It's just pure brainwashing!!!
just me,,,still,,,,tim!!! ;-) I felt this was a lovely little way for me to come out on the list.. I am after all very religious,so therefor I must love pussy, Well not exactly, you see I also wanted to adhere to homophobia, but again I was shunned because,I could not find a lovely homophobe to play it on, so since I cant enjoy pussy (except my precious persian "Linus", and I cant find a homophobe to play my homophobia on,I will just have to admit to being in love with the other "Grumpy old man" You know who you are,and I would pay that much at an auction for you)LOL And loving to take out my dentures and?????? Damn wheres my ginko biloba, I forgot what I was saying again....
Hugz, SGS ANYWAY, in my heart, I truly believe that if a person is truly gay and loves being with men (or women), he wouldn't want to change. I've met some of the most wonderful people just by being the way I am and wouldn't want to lose any of them--
David I read this study in the newspaper, but decided to post it to the list because the fault of this study was that more than two-thirds of the "homosexuals" involved in the study were referred or belongs to right-wing groups whose goal is to "convert" homosexuals to heterosexuals.
Edward Don't these people refer to this as recruitment??? Hmmmmm....
------------------------------
J:
Eric
James, These stories about gay people being converted to "straight" are ludicrous. I've read too many articles about so-called "reformed" and "cured" people who married and had children and lived the hetroid (love that word, Ben) life for a time, only to eventually wander back into gay encounters and relationships. I think science has clinically proven that our brains are different, certainly not inferior in any way, just different -- and that is something over which we have no control. Our contributions to the worlds of fine art, literature, and even sports are far too numerous to list. The world would be a lot poorer, were it not for people like Tchaikovsky, Aaron Copeland, Benjamin Britten, Samuel Barber, Walt Whitman, Christian Laettner, Greg Louganis, David Kopay, George Cukor, Danny Kaye, Rudolf Nureyev, James Whale, Rudolf Valentino and Ramon Navarro, to name only a small sampling. The list could go on and on. As the slogan goes, "We're here, we're queer, be prepared!" (I saw that in one of the gay papers here in LA as a warning to the Boy Scouts.) Thanks, James, for your contribution.
Ethan in LA What I want to see is a study about converting tight-ass hetroids to happy homos.
George of Boston (Boston Bill) End of silverfoxesclub-digest V1 #234
|