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In this issue: -Eminem (20)
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Tuning into the Grammys to watch the Eminem-Elton John ensemble, I saw the opening Madonna number which I thought was jerky and then suffered through a humorless intro by a comedian who wasn't funny, and I managed to stay awake long enough to see Eminem shuffle onstage with a bunch of brothers and accept a lesser award than he expected while self-consciously reading a short list of credits and as I had never seen or heard him before I was surprised at how strange-looking and bleached out he was in the spirit of Michael Jackson who has a lot more poise and how incongruously he sounded like a brother from the streets and no wonder his mother sued his nasty white ass and then I passed out from boredom in my chair and when I woke up a few hours later my partner, who was still awake, told me that he had watched Elton do a chorus very nicely and added that Eminem was really awful and a piece of shit and hadn't rapped even one intelligible word and after their duet Eminem gave the finger to the audience and then Elton gave him a big hug and the crowd went wild with delight so now Eminem will make another billion dollars and feel empowered to continue his inspiring career until every woman has been raped and all of us queers have been killed and anybody else who ain't a brother starves to death with duct tape over his mouth, but I say that if there is any justice, before that happens Eminem will die in an avalanche of his own money whilst shagging Dr Laura's behind and then there will be peace on earth and I will never have to review the Grammys again which is nothing new because this was the first I saw since they have been around for the past 43 years.
My partner and I are now watching a re-run of
"The Exorcist" which is much funnier and more
enlightening and has more class than anything I
saw on the Grammys. Dear Lord Ben, please take a breath, I am very worried about you running on like that nonstop just rolling and ranting and gasping without a breath do you not know how dangerous that can be my God you could kill yourself and nobody would know because you will still be spouting and pontificating and your eyes would turn blue and your face could turn purple and your partner would just think you were on another roll and might be tempted to just let you go on and on thinking you were just doing your Ben-thing and completely ignore you and walk into the kitchen and make himself a tuna salad sandwhich while you continued on so and probably pour himself a diet Dr. Pepper in the meantime and switch on the kitchen telly to catch up on the grammys never even aware that you had just spent the very last breath that remained in your grammy-apostlitizing lungs. WHEW.... I guess I am a little naive, but I thought that what Elton did was pretty cool... With one simple gesture, he diffused a great deal of fag-bashery, and probably taught Eminem a lesson or two about tolerance. I say, lets try to see the positive. Surely I may be wrong. I can live with that. But if I am correct, we will not hear too much negative crap from Eminem for a healthy long time. At least I hope so.
Terry in KC I would like to point out to a couple of you guys, and to anyone else who didn't get it, that my review of the Grammys was meant to be humorous. The nutty picture I created to go with it should have been a clear indication of my intent. My partner giggled all the way through the article when he read it and nearly split a gut when he saw the picture. My baby never goes off on heavy psychological trips over non-issues, and that's one of the reasons I love him. We spend a large part of our time together laughing and the rest of it making love. We get some heavy posts on this list, and I often try to lighten up the proceedings because not everybody here is interested in a continuous flow of serious shit. As for my review, if you didn't think it was funny, delete it. If you were insulted because you love Eminem, excuse me while I barf. Hee hee!
Ben Boxer I thought what you said re the Grammy non-event (to me) was a hoot! Nils
The "bullshit" thing was classic, dude...........it had me in bits
Tonka
Some people get it. Sir Elton John is one of them and I applaud him for what he did at the Grammys last night. On the surface Eminem may just seem like a "rapper" who is hateful and antagonistic, but there is much method in his madness. He represents a growing portion of the population, namely younger generations, who will not tolerate intolerance, judgment or censorship--and are simply sick and tired of it. No matter how ugly and unseemly Eminem may SEEM, he, like many before him, will not socially conform just because people who are more "enlightened" says he should. Indeed, some of the things Eminem says is controversial, but it is a means to be heard and should not be taken seriously or out of context as it often is. Furthermore, controversy is sometimes necessary -- especially when there is more than just bullshit behind it. GLAAD's protest against Eminem was a lost cause, in my opinion. What is the message they are sending and to whom? Instead of trying to "stop" him, which would only serve to fuel any real contempt he and the millions who support him might have, activists would have achieved much more for their cause by saying, "we don't appreciate your lyrics; we may not even like you, but we ACCEPT you for who you are." One simply cannot tear down walls by building more walls in its place. Elton John, on the other hand, braved attacks from many for supporting Eminem because he saw the greater good in it--and I admire him for that. His duet with Eminem exemplified real grace and did more for the fight against intolerance than GLAAD's protest will ever do.
Clark I have to agree. Granted some of the things Eminem raps about are offensive, cruel and insensitive, but they really all seems somewhat biegn. THere's almost something of a comedic element to what he's saying. Now, whether or not there is malice intent is a whole nother issue. What people use as excuses or fuel for their own poli-social fires are endless. A scapegoat will always be found whenever one is needed. I think the President of the Academy of Recording Arts and SCiences said it best when he talked about censorship should not and can not replace the moral values instilled by parents. Far too often we look to place blame on the entertainment business, be it movies, video games and the like, that we sometimes look away from the failures of homes. That's the easy way out.
Fred
Having just spent an hour on the Internet reading many of the lyrics authored by Eminem, it seems beside the point to consider their "comedic element" as suggested by one poster or, in the words of another, that they "should not be taken seriously or out of context." Nor does it seem relevant to speak of his constitutional right to free speech because I don't see anybody gluing his mouth shut with duct tape as he suggests for others (perhaps as a comedic element -- hee hee). More important to me than what he does and how he gets away with it is the influence he wields on the young. I doubt there is any way to shut him up other than an act of God (if there is one) so his hateful notions -- whether heartfelt or not -- will continue to spread like manure in the impressionable minds of target audiences as young as 7, 10, 11, 12 years of age, according to statistics I read tonight. One of our posters suggests that he is speaking to a generation which does not tolerate intolerance, a statement greatly at variance with reports I have read in the past few months about the attitudes of American high school and college students toward homosexuals. They seem to approve of giving us our rights, but would prefer that we not survive to enjoy them. That is an opinion expressed by sociologists. If however our poster is right and the research is wrong, under Eminem's malignant influence their intolerance for intolerance may not last for long. Given that prognosis, what is the true value of a smooch from Elton John? Or of anyone's making excuses for Eminem's message of hate whether he means it or not? Here is a sample of the interview on the subject of Eminem: Question from The Advocate: As an artist...shouldn't Eminem have the opportunity to work through those issues (i.e., amorphous and deeply threatening doubts about his own sexuality) out loud and come out the other side with a clearer understanding of his own feelings?
Answer from GLAAD's Romaine Patterson: At
whose expense, in letting him work through
these issues, are we talking about? Is it at the
expense of the young kids who are hearing
"faggot" in the hallways every day at school?
For this particular issue, it's not about silencing
Eminem at all. This is not an issue of censorship,
this is truly an issue of responsibility. Eminem
has every right to say what he chooses.
However, it's important to note that Eminem has
an understanding of what defamatory speech is.
Interscope Records has an understanding of
what defamatory speech is. Eminem has said that
he will not use the word "nigger" in his lyrics
because he understands that that would be
defamatory to the black community. Interscope
said they will not let [Eminem] use lyrics that
refer to Columbine for the same reason. It's a
sensitive topic that would be considered
inflamatory. They sink to a whole new standard
when it comes to words dealing with the gay and
lesbian community. It's still socially acceptable
for Eminem with these standards to use the word
"faggot" 13 times and use violent lyrics towards
gays and lesbians.
I agree on that Ben and believe that he and interscope should held responsible for the content of his songs. However I do feel that the gay community is really dropping the ball on this one, if he were to use the word nigger in the same context as he used faggot and lesbian he would definitely be in the shitter. But the gay community is attacking this wrong, we are attacking the artist and not his backers. You can attack an artist till your blue in the face and all you will get is a restraining order against you. However, if you attack his backers you get a better result.
Basically the gay community needs to leave eminem alone and go after his
support, like a building thats being demolished if you just strike at the
top of the building you are getting nowhere fast and just making a mess
but if you blow out the supports the whole building crumbles.
Ben -
Larry
I don't normally jump in the conversations on this list i am Mostly just a reader, but I feal I am actually qualify to answer this question or statement or what ever. I am an 18 year old fox hunter (have to be sense it would be odd for me to be a silverfox) and I have grown up (for the past 4 years) with emimem. I personally don't like 90% of his stuff but weather you like him or not you must say one thing, he is a Genius, he has managed in his first album to gather a following based on his lyerics (because i feal there is no skill involved in rapping) of around 4 million people and i even purchased his first CD because it had a few redeeming songs. i do think than he is more promoting the "rap" image in his songs that a personal feeling but i think that is there too, and well sense when dose GLADD run around the sotherpart of the country and protest every little shot thats owner is a white slob with no ideals and who just because he can hate everyone under the sun, and loves to tell people that? i mean this hole thing got out of control. i though the performance with Emenem and Sir Elton John was fabulous! and i think the song they chose was a great choice because well, that is one of his more heartfelt song, he plays down a bunch of things he said in other songs that maybe kid's might do? or not? i don't know but I think he is just another Rapper out to make a buck, and I think he is doing OK.... but if we just ignore him, he'll more than likely never have an effect on your life personally. So the only reason this is a controversy is....... because we want it to be?
Aaron
Hello - Greetings to all, As usual I should probably just keep my mouth shut as I will probably get myself into trouble. I wanted to make mention of this though to those of you who care. I let my 9 y/o daughter stay up with me to watch the Elton/Eminem thing. The key words to me here and that I let her stay up "with me". Even thought I don't like Rap and definately don't like Eminem (thats my taste and no amount of replies will change my taste - I am intitled) we were able to watch together and discuss why WE didn't like it. She loved the Elton parts (matter of fact I took her to an Elton concert when she was 5 - she was up on my sholders on the floor swaying back and forth - it was great - she had a great time - and since has been took up and has been playing the piano because of his inspiration). She didn't like the language that Eminem used and discussed it with me. Eminem is an artist of sorts. Just like several other artist that I may not like, I feel his should be aloud to display his art. If he goes broke because nobody listens - oh well. Now if I took the other approach and told my daughter Eminem is bad and I don't want you listening to that crap! She would still hear it around. And if we were not close and she wanted to get my attention she would probably listen to it just to get attention. I notice that we discuss the influence that others have on our children, but who should really be thier influence. I think we just need to knuckle down and spend more time with our children so that they get the influence we want. I know, I for one spend far too little time with my daughter - but I also know that I spend more time with her than alot of people spend with theirs. Lets either spend the time, encourage our children to not like what we don't like and like what we do - or not make an issue of the influence they are getting when it is not from us. If enough of us don't like Eminem, and we direct our children to not like him then his rap will not be played and he'll have to find something else to do for a living. The more we dispute, discuss, and carry on about it the more he will be in the spotlight. Sorry for rambling on ...
Warmest Regards,
P.S. My appologies in advance if I offended anyone - and pardon my spelling
- - I know it sucks!
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Dear Paul,
thanks for your posting
not my words, but john arachosis's....very worth reading. Wednesday night at the Grammy's, Elton John will be singing a duet with homophobic rapper Eminem. Eminem apparently asked Elton to sing the duet, and Elton readily agreed, saying that "If I thought for one minute he was hateful, I wouldn't do it." As probably everyone knows, Eminem has angered a lot of people by peppering his music with anti-gay and anti-women lyrics. As for whether he's really hateful, or the lyrics are a problem, check some of them out for yourself: BEGINNING OF EMINEM EXCERPTS...
You faggots keep eggin me on
"Slim Anus," you damn right, Slim Anus
My words are like a dagger with a jagged edge END OF EMINEM EXCERPTS... I'm not going to rehash all the same arguments here about whether Eminem is a homophobe and whether Elton John should be singing with the guy. I do, however, have an idea as to why Elton John might be doing this. As a writer myself, I've already had my share of people contacting me to complain about some word or another that I used in an article, and about which they took offense. While some such complaints are valid, most are simply loony toons. After a while, and a whole bunch of such criticism, you start to tune it out, and assume that every person complaining is a wing nut. And that, I suspect, is why Elton John is doing the duet with Eminem. He's tired of hearing people complain about artists and their words (HIS words), so he's fighting back. The problem with Elton's logic (assuming this is his motivation) is that just because some complaints are wacky, doesn't mean ALL complaints are wacky. And while Elton may have himself suffered a lot of criticism over his years as an "in", and then "out", gay man, that doesn't mean that every bit of criticism leveled at someone else is always per se invalid. And perhaps even worse than the content of Eminem's lyrics, is the content, or lack thereof, of his response to his critics. According to the news reports I've read, and other reporters I've spoken to, never once has Eminem come out and repudiated violence against gays and violence against women. I think back to a time last summer when Dr. Laura claimed that some anti-Laura activists were phoning in death threats against her and against Paramount. When asked about this, those of us involved in StopDrLaura.com immediately expressed our outrage, and disavowed anyone who might physically threaten Dr. Laura or Paramount employees. We didn't know if the reports were true, but they were serious enough accusations that we thought it important to make clear that we would never condone violence. The point is that when asked about the potential for your work to lead to violence, responsible people should make it very clear immediately that they of course repudiate such violence. Eminem, however, has done no such thing - and the deafening silence is quite telling. And that is the reason Sir Elton shouldn't be singing with Eminem Wednesday night.
I will say one final thing about the content of Eminem's
lyrics. If Elton John and the hosts of the Grammys are so
sure that Eminem's anti-gay rhetoric isn't hateful, then I'm
sure they wouldn't mind singing one of the songs about
stabbing fags on Wednesday night, just to show the world that
the lyrics aren't so bad after all.
Dear Aaron,
Well said, Clark! My sentiments exactly. I am very happy about what Elton John
(and Eminem) did. I think it has sent a positive message to young people
who listen to Eminem's music.
Aaron,
JD
Yes, these are my last words on Eminem
...and hopefully close to the last words of
everybody on the list because we have
just about beaten this thread to death! Ben Boxer notes: Having read Eminem's lyrics for an hour last night and coming away with an unsettled stomach, today I read the opinion below and then discovered that Eminem was appearing in concert this afternoon on a pay-per-view channel. I watched. I almost enjoyed him. Although I am still wary of his baleful influence on the young, I am less vociferous in my anti-Eminem opinion -- not converted, but more tolerant. The biggest surprise of the day, however, was Eminem's admission after the Grammys that he had not known Sir Elton John was gay until the titled Englishman approached him with the idea of a duet at the ceremony. Eminem's conclusion after meeting and talking with the Brit star was that Elton's support "made a statement in itself, saying that he understood where I was coming from."
Headline:
Text: I would have told you to buy the CD and listen to it start to finish without disruptions. I would have told you that GLAAD's objections are anti-artistic fundamentalism of the worst order. I don't want to hear another word from any Eminem critics who haven't carefully listened to The Marshall Mathers LP, which is a very different experience from reading lyrics removed from their context. Just be sure to turn your bass knob about three notches left of flat before you hit play. My Denon amp and 1979 then-state-of-the-art Advent Utility Speakers (which had been rap virgins until today) knocked a picture off the wall and several Mexican tchotchkes off a shelf. I was surprised my woofers didn't crack. Eminem Enema: Apart from making good art, Eminem is good for homos. He's got everybody talkin' about us -- from your local daily newspaper to Grammy honchos to Madonna, Stevie Wonder, and Elton John. All America is hearin' about fuckin' faggots takin' it up the ass. In my humble opinion, it's a refreshing change from "gay leaders" babbling on CNN about gay politics. Like Fred Phelps's extremist shenanigans sometimes do, Eminem's "shocking" lyrics have thrust us into the news cycle and kept us there. And the more the world hears about us, of course, the less foreign or threatening we are. Pop Psychology: Some people wonder if Marshall Mathers might be itchin' to take it up the butt himself. Studies, of course, reveal that men who are uncomfortable with their own homo urges (thanks to society) can become obsessed with gays, some to the point of violence. Eminem's music is borderline obsessed with gays and, taken at the most simplistic and superficial level, could be construed as aggressively anti-gay. I, obviously, think calling Eminem's music anti-gay is a fundamentalist or PC misreading of his satire. Gay lib, you know, is partly responsible for some men's anti-gay angst. Gay lib helped create the false dichotomy of "gay" and "straight" and then pretty much labeled as "gay" anyone who has a history of (or even a desire for) engaging in sex with someone of the same gender. My own experiences growing up in a Midwestern U.S. farm town and working as a journalist in Latin America clearly revealed that lots of nongay men have sex with men. If society tells such men they are "gay," some of these men will get bent out of shape because they know they are not fundamentally "gay" and because being "gay" is still seen by some people as a negative thing. One surefire way to reduce overall gay-bashing is to abandon the simplistic division of the populace into "gay" and "straight." Human sexuality is much more nuanced than that. Acknowledging this fact might allow straight boys to return to the old days of having sex with each other (or wanting to have sex with each other) and not having it mean anything. Much of Latin America and the Arab world remain this way today. Lynne Shocker: Lynne Cheney, wife of U.S. Vice President Dick Cheney (who has yet to acknowledge publicly that her daughter Mary is openly gay, despite being asked about it repeatedly by reporters) weighed in on the Eminem "controversy" with this surprising comment during a February 20 CNN interview: "Eminem is certainly, I think, the most extreme example of rock lyrics used to demean women, advocate violence against women, violence against gay people. Elton John has been good in the past about speaking out on issues of equality for gay people, on issues of being against violent language against gay people. I am quite amazed and dismayed that he would choose to perform with Eminem [at the Grammys]." Lynne, while I disagree with you about Eminem and Elton, thanks for finally saying "gay" and even sounding gay-friendly, which we know you are, privately, in your own family. Now, once again, Lynne, we ask: What's it like to be the wife of the Vice President who is a member of an officially anti-gay political party (read the Republican Platform, Lynne) while simultaneously being an accepting mother of an openly lesbian daughter? You've finally said something about us. Now let's hear more. Check out the CD and decide for yourself
(-- Above opinion by Rex Wockner of
PlanetOut)
Dear Paul,
Ben Boxer had it right and to the point (snore.haha), and so do you. If you pay too much attention, you only encourage it. Personally, I don.t think he.ll last too long unless his opponents make it so. After all, he ain.t no Beatles, he ain.t no Grateful Dead and he sure ain.t no Cole Porter (that.s Eminem not Ben Boxer!) If we (the so-called adults) keep going on about him, we only boost his interest and attraction. Others have made a buck by doing shit not just singing about it, for gawds sake. As you say, .The more we dispute, discuss, and carry on about it the more he will be in the spotlight.. So I won't say another word.
Best wishes, I just wanted to say that since all this Eminem crap I decided to pull out my "Marshall Mathers LP" CD today to give it another listen. I guess its a good thing since I was tired of the CD and it had been placed on my shelf. I found it still amusing. I wonder if it will stay that way years from now.
Bill
End of silverfoxesclub-digest V1 #150
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