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In this issue:
-Phelps Update
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Dear friends. For those who have been asking how did it go... the short version is GREAT! I have appended the press release from the organizers for those that are interested. I really want to thank the members of this list who supported this endeavor and also suggest that should you ever have the opportunity of having Mr. Phelps and his hate mongers come to your community turn it into a positive. dave aka luvhog
The counting is not done yet, but as of a phone call just now the total is
over $6,500 and donations are still being accepted. ANN ARBOR, MI - When the Reverend Fred Phelps came to town, the gay community here decided not to get mad. They decided to get rich. Among the Ann Arbor locales the Kansas-based Phelps and his band elected to picket was the /aut/ BAR, a gay-owned restaurant, bar and community gathering place. When co-owner Keith Orr heard that his establishment was being targeted, he wanted to respond constructively. He and his partner, Martin Contreras, did not want to promote a counter-demonstration, feeling that Phelps gains the most attention - and hence is most effective - when he provokes anger and outrage from his opponents. Rather, Orr decided to use his Phelps visit to the community's advantage. Phelps's plans to picket the bar came to light only two days prior to his scheduled February 17, 2001 demonstration. With little time, Orr used the Internet to organize a unique fundraising scheme. In an email message to customers, supporters, and friends, he proposed that people pledge money to the Washtenaw Rainbow Action Project (WRAP), a local gay advocacy group and community center, for every minute that Phelps picketed the bar. In this way, Orr explained, the longer Phelps stayed to spew hate, the more money he would raise for WRAP. He and Contreras kicked off the drive by pledging $1 per minute. Contreras explained why he felt it was important to organize a response to Phelps. "When I was first coming out fifteen years ago people told me, 'You 've got to watch out for this so-called reverend from Kansas named Phelps. He's out to wage war against the gay community.' He had been showing up at funerals of people who had died of AIDS with signs claiming that gay people would burn in hell. At the time he was just a blip on the radar screen. But when he protested at Matthew Shepherd's funeral he became a national menace." At the same time, Orr continued, "I didn't want to give Phelps what he wanted," meaning a counter-demonstration. "But just ignoring him seemed wrong." Only two minutes after Orr sent out his email message pledges began to pour in, not only from Ann Arbor, but from as far away as New Hampshire, Texas and California. The pledge drive gained such momentum that by the day of Phelps's demonstration - only 48 hours after Orr and Contreras kicked off the drive - friends and supporters of Ann Arbor's gay community had promised to contribute a total of $107 for every minute Phelps picketed the /aut/ BAR. "When I began the pledge drive I wasn't necessarily expecting anything big," Orr said. "I just wanted to give people an opportunity to turn Phelps's message of hate into something positive for our community." Even so, the size and speed of the response surprised him. "Normally a fundraising event of this magnitude takes months of planning and a lot of up-front costs. In 48 hours we raised over $6000 without spending a dime. I was astonished." Pledges arrived in diverse amounts and from a wide range of sources. They varied in amount from as little as 10 cents per minute to as much as 5 dollars per minute. "The great thing about this kind of fundraiser is that no one is excluded. People can participate at any economic level," said Orr. The range of contributors included neighboring business owners, a high school Gay/Straight Alliance and individual members of the Ann Arbor police force. On February 17, the day of the protest, Phelps's band numbered only four adults and two small children. Instead of confronting the hate-mongerers and giving them the attention they craved, over one hundred community members and supporters gathered in the bar on a Saturday afternoon, celebrating while they counted the minutes that Phelps's cronies stood outside raising money for Ann Arbor's gay community. That afternoon WRAP Board member Linda Lombardini received one notable pledge. "A father and his young son were driving past the bar and saw the protestors out front," she explained. "The son asked his father who they were and what they were doing there. The father stopped the car and brought his son into the restaurant to demonstrate to him that gay people are no different from anyone else. When he realized that we were holding a fundraiser he handed his son a ten-dollar bill to give to me." "We view this as a form of economic containment," Orr said. "Phelps is free to spread his message, however perverse we find it, wherever he wants. The First Amendment protects his right to do that. But we turned what could have been a negative into a positive. This has been an incredible community-building experience for us.
"We hope that cities and towns across the country will do this everywhere he
goes. I get a charge thinking that every time he hits the road he will help
us build our communities and fund our organizations."
Headlines:
Text: 2) The partner of a San Francisco woman who was mauled to death by a 120-pound dog last month plans to file a wrongful death suit against the dog's owners, challenging the state law banning such suits by domestic partners in the process. California state law allows only surviving spouses, children, and parents to bring wrongful death suits. However, Sharon Smith, whose partner, Diane Alexis Whipple, was killed outside her apartment by a Presa Canario dog on January 26, plans to challenge the existing state law. "I want to change some laws so that domestic partners have some recourse in the future," said Smith. "As gay and lesbian couples, we can't get married. We can't file suit. We're really caught in a catch-22." Experts say that Smith's suit is a necessary challenge to the law. Kate Kendell, executive director of the San Francisco-based National Center for Lesbian Rights said: "The state can't have it both ways. You can't condition a right on marital status, then deny a whole class of people the right of access to be married."
3) A Temple University student who says he was
carted off to a psychiatric ward for protesting
the staging of the play Corpus Christi on campus
has become a hero to conservative Christians.
Michael Marcavage maintains that he was sent
to a hospital for observation after he complained
to university officials about the play by Tony
award winner Terrence McNally, which depicts
Jesus and his followers as young gay men.
Marcavage says that he felt the play, which was
staged for two days in 1999, was filled with "hate
speech" toward Christians. Marcavage asked
William Bergman, university vice president for
operations, to build an outdoor stage so that he
could stage his own play about Jesus, titled Final
Destiny. Bergman originally agreed to the
request, Marcavage says, but then reneged.
When Bergman told him he wouldn't have the
stage built, Marcavage says he locked himself in
a bathroom outside Bergman's office for five
minutes "just to pray and collect my thoughts."
When he emerged, Marcavage maintains, he was
held by Bergman and a security officer until a
school psychologist and campus police could
arrive. The psychologist, Denise Walton,
concluded that Marcavage was a threat to
himself and had him involuntarily committed for
observation. Marcavage has filed a federal
lawsuit against the school for violating his rights.
University officials dispute Marcavage's
account, saying that he asked for a 70-foot stage
only one day before meeting with Bergman.
They say the student arrived in an "agitated
state" and that when Bergman told him the stage
was impractical, he cried, "It's over!" and fled to
the bathroom. Officials said Marcavage was
there for 15 minutes and that they had to send
for a locksmith. "He came out [of the bathroom]
sort of staggering," one university official said.
"We didn't know if he had taken something."
Marcavage was released after 3 1/2 hours. The
doctor who examined him said he was "calm and
cooperative." Conservative Christian groups
have taken up Marcavage's cause, prompting a
deluge of mail to Temple. "What happened to
Michael Marcavage should shock all
Americans," the American Family Association of
Tupelo, Miss., declared in its February
newsletter. "It is nothing less than an outrageous
attempt to intimidate, silence, and belittle
Christians." AFA head Donald Wildmon has
asked for money to help Marcavage's lawsuit.
Marcavage is being defended by the AFA's
Center for Law and Policy. His attorney, Brian
Fahling, said that he expects to seek damages of
$750,000.
Laura Schlessinger is a US radio personality. Recently, she said that as an observant Orthodox Jew, homosexuality is an abomination according to Leviticus 18:22 and cannot be condoned in any circumstance. The following is an open letter to Dr. Laura penned by a US resident, which was posted on the Internet:
Dear Dr. Laura: 1) When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord (Lev. 1:9). The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them? 2) I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her? 3) I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness (Lev. 15:19-24). The problem is, how do I tell ? I have tried asking, but most women take offense. 4) Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians? 5) I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself? 6) A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination (Lev. 11:10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this? 7) Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some room for negotiation here? 8) Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev.19:27. How should they die? 9) I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves? 10) My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? (Lev.24:10-16) Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14) I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.
Your devoted disciple and adoring fan. Living in the UK, I'm less aware of the background to this letter, but I do like the way it's composed. Philosophically, it encourages the following thoughts: 1-The Law, observe the Letter or Spirit or both and ignore any conflict 2-Should Justice be blind or see, in the US its one, in UK the other 3-Should people have Justice or Right or All they can get 4-Democracy promotes the will of the Majority at expense of Minorities 5-Is there "A" God and was "Man" made in his Image? All Facets? I wouldn't know how to argue any of these thoughts but this letter sure did evoke them,
Derek, London, UK
Dear Friends: It's particularly interesting to me because just a couple of weeks ago, I posted my own story concerning this very issue at my own website.
For those who haven't read my story, I'll repeat it here. "I started my "sexual career", as it were, at either 12 or 13yrs old -- it gets a little fuzzy trying to remember precisely. It was at a summer camp with a Jesuit clergyman. It's hard to say, but I imagine that he was around 40 at the time. I can't really say who seduced whom but over time one thing led to another and the deed was eventually done. On and off over time, we had multiple sexual encounters until I was in my late 20's. Pay attention and understand -- as much as I sought out that relationship and as much as I enjoyed it physically IT WAS WRONG!!! The two of us used each other and in my opinion it was mutually destructive. I was a kid just crossing into puberty -- of course I wanted sex. That didn't make it right for a 40 year old man (or woman) to accommodate me. Most 13 year olds also want to drive cars and drink beers and quit school and disown their parents and murder their siblings. Some 13 year olds would eat an entire wedding cake with a gallon of ice cream. Some 13 year olds would literally play with dynamite. How many among you think that any of those things is a good idea? Even though I liked and wanted the attention, I was molested! Unfortunately, there's no other word for it. I wasn't being "groomed" or "initiated" -- I was being molested! I don't mean to preach, but if any of you adults out there are involved sexually with a minor -- stop it right now! You're hurting the kid and you're hurting yourself. "GET THEE TO A SHRINKARY" post haste. The argument could be made that my experience with "Clergyman X" explains my fetish for mature, chubby white men (he was much older than myself, and he was white and he looked like he had swallowed a medicine ball). But I like to hope that it's not so. I was attracted to men like him long before I knew what chubbies and chasers were. Even Dr. Freud said that, "Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar."" I've received several responses regarding that particular part of my personal history. The letters split at about 50/50 as to whether or not my assessment of this situation was correct. Now that the subject has been brought to this list I'd be very interested to know what other list members think. Also, I self-righteously condemned Picard for his "Arab statements" but this actually puts a whole new spin on that subject. I wrote that lumping all of the people of a particular group into one ugly ball was wrong. Well, it is -- but after reading Picard's last post It suddenly occured to me that "I have hard feelings toward all clergymen". I just never expressed it out loud before. It just goes to show that there is always room for improvement and that you learn something new every day -- if you're open to it. Thank you members, for reading this. Thank you Picard, for initiating this.
As always.....
From: George of Boston bostbill@ix.netcom.com George of Boston writes:
Dear Ben and the list,
George of Boston, also known as "Boston Bill". Yes, by all means, George. I do, however, want to offer a word of caution to all posters on this subject. The first post that came through on the actual subject after its proposal by Picard was an excellent piece which included a relationship between a middle-aged man and a boy in his early teens. I let the post go through because the poster emphasized a moral point about the impropriety of the relationship in view of the involvement of a pubescent boy. We are not in the NAMBLA (North American Man/Boy Love Association) mode here. Please do not consider this an opportunity to leap in with man/boy or underage sex stories. I will reject them without comment. "Date rape" could become a controversial thread in more ways than one, as suggested in Picard's original post when he wrote, "I don't think the responses you get will be as 'nicey nice' as you would hope for." I consider that statement a realistic appraisal of the possibilities. I will cut the thread in a heartbeat if the more frisky among you start getting out of line IN MY JUDGMENT. Otherwise, please enjoy!
Ben Boxer
Joe, Most of my male friends who have, as youths, experienced a sexual relationship with a significantly older adult male have fallen into one of two camps: 1) "I was the seducer and it was great," to which I usually respond "I'm glad it worked out well for you, but I still think it was wrong and criminal; or 2) "I was an innocent and I was abused," which sometimes leaves me silently wondering how much of a male Lolita the chap may have been. But, no matter who seduces who, the adult remains the _responsible_ person. Remembering my own sexual feelings at 16 or 17 or thereabouts (guess I was a "late bloomer") your story rings very true to me.
Hal
Terry,
I agree with you completely! My partner (59 years old) was raped when he was young by a much older man. He talks to me about it and I can't help but feel sorry for anybody who has to live their whole lives remembering something like that. It's a feeling of being totally helpless, and once it's finished, you don't know if you'll be able to tell anybody about it, much less LIVE to tell about it. He grew up in the 40s and 50s where things like this didn't (or weren't) supposed to happen so I can only imagine what his life was. How could one tell his parents what had just happened? Would they believe you, or just blame you for being at the wrong place at the wrong time? If it was someone with authority, would they keep it quiet in order not to raise a ruckus? We have to remember that this was back in the 1940s and 1950s. I have had other older friends who have told me similar stories, so it's not something that only happens to a couple of us. I can't help but wonder if that's what turns men to be exclusive "bottoms"? Does one feel that useless that all he wants is to have somebody screw him in the ass and he just lays there and take it? The only thing one can do about something like this is TALK about it with people he trusts and knows. If you keep silent about something like this, it tears you up inside and that's not good...
David
the adult remains the _responsible_ person. I agree with you completely! Thank you, Buddy. I was getting pretty down, getting negative feedback from what I thought was a pretty simple concept. I was gettig a little depressed! So I really appreciate that you took the time to send some kind words along. I appreciate it very much. Thank you, friend. I do wish you all the best.
Peace,
Hello Gentlemen:
Hugs,Rod (Texas)
I expressed concern about this thread when
it was initiated. On the basis of several letters
I have received from members, I am cutting
the thread because it creates too much
discomfort for too many as it seems to come
to rest almost entirely in the area of child abuse.
As I said at the beginning of the thread, we are
not in the NAMBLA (North American Man/Boy
Love Association) mode on this list, and any talk
about molesting little boys -- no matter when
or by whom -- is off-limits. Those who need
counseling in this area to overcome their own
childhood traumas should resort to professional
aid. The postings I have allowed to be published
thus far have mostly been in good taste despite
the tragic circumstances of the situations recounted.
Thank you.
End of silverfoxesclub-digest V1 #148
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