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Silverfoxesclub-digest
Sunday, February 18 2001
Volume 01 : Number 145

In this issue:

-Gays in Egypt (3)
-Anal Sex (15)

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From: "Ben Boxer" benboxer@mediaone.net
Subject: Gays in Egypt

Headline:
Egyptian Government Accused of Gay Harassment
(Data Lounge, 16 Feb)

Text:
CAIRO, Egypt -- The British newspaper, the Electronic Telegraph, reports Turkish baths in Cairo, long one of the few safe havens in Egypt for gay men to socialize and find partners, are being targeted by the government in a morals campaign that threatens thousands.

No arrests have been made and indeed the Egyptian government flatly denies the closures are motivated by a desire to isolate and intimidate gay people. But rights advocates in the country note that authorities have timed the closures with a crackdown on gay expression in general.

Several websites catering to gay Egyptians have also been subjected to government harassment and closed down -- the computers seized.

A total of 13 Turkish baths in the capital have so far been closed, deeply angering the city's close knit but politically fearful gay community. Egypt's ministries of culture and tourism say they are seeking to preserve the baths, or hamams, some of which date back to the 15th century. They argue that the crumbling buildings require urgent restoration.

Though often condemned by a conservative Islamic society, gays in the capital have been tolerated for centuries. In the Arab world, Cairo is a magnet for gay people seeking a more liberated existence, much in the way London, New York, San Francisco and Sydney have been in the West. The bath closures, though, have thrown into sharp relief the vulnerability, fear and isolation many gays in Cairo feel.

"The government knows these are the only places we have to meet and so they are trying to restrict us further," one rights advocate, speaking on condition of anonymity, told the Telegraph.

In response to queries by the British paper, government officials say the closures are not intended to harass gay Egyptians. They say the baths, heated by wood fires beneath their marble floors, are crumbling under the strain of several hundred years of use and that many will reopen after renovation.

Members of the gay community in Egypt are not so sure.
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From: "Mohamed Taher" pharaohs24@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: Gays in Egypt

Thanks for the article about the gay baths here in Cairo. I have received copies of it from some other people, too. Neither I nor my friends are aware of any systematic attacks on gay people here in Cairo. In fact, life here seems to be quite easy for most gay men, although there are certainly cultural differences between here and the U.S., and that seems to be where some of the mis-information is coming from in the article that you sent us.

There are over 100 bath houses (Hamams) here in Cairo. At one time there were nearly 400! Many of them date from the early middle ages and are very, very old and quite decrepit, according to people I know who have been there. The government has recently closed only 15 (out of 100 or more) of them, because they were either unsafe or filthy or both. They will either be repaired or left closed. This does not mean that gays are being targeted or persecuted. Rather, it means that the government is actually spending some money to repair places that are well-known here as gay sex spots! This is hardly what I would call discrimination!

I and my friends all say that everyone knows that the Hamams are strictly places where gay sex occurs. No one goes to them just for a bath any more. Westerners who come here go there to have sex with Egyptian men and vice versa.

In addition to the bath houses, there are plenty of gay coffee shops, a few gay bars (remember that Moslems don't drink) and at least one large gay disco. There are plenty of gay men here, too, although many of them are also married (to women) and have families. While that is hardly an openly gay lifestyle, the fact of the matter is that there are many men who live their lives this way. This is much the same as it still is in much of western Europe.

I think that the article that you sent is over-blown and that it misrepresents the true situation here. Certainly, it is possible that individual instances of discrimination occur here, just as they do in the U.S. and elsewhere around the world. It is not illegal to be gay here (unlike some states in the U.S. where it still is illegal), and the government basically takes a hands-off approach to gays. I certainly feel very comfortable here in Cairo, and people do not seem at all bothered by us . It seems to me that what we have here is some journalist who got his nose bent out of joint and is trying to make the situation here look bad, when in reality, Egypt - or at least Cairo - remains a safe haven for gay men in this part of the world.

I hope that this puts a different perspective on things for you. Be Well!!
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From: "Dave C...." southern_son69@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: Gays in Egypt

I second Mohammed's thoughts on gay culture in the Middle East. I have been in Kuwait City for the past 7 years and have learned A LOT about the vast differences between the Muslim world and Western world. Especially when it comes to homosexuality. I can say my eyes were opened to a whole lot of new ideas just by being here.

I have found it a hell of a lot easier to "come out" to the men over here since (1) they won't bash your brains in just because you're gay, and (2) they don't go around telling the whole world that you made an advance towards him. The men over here are very understanding, especially when it comes to "male bonding". I have had more luck with Egyptians than with anybody else (but my heart belongs to Palestinians and Iranians..YUM!!!)

Men here still walk around holding hands, kiss each other on the cheek, and generally show much warmth towards each other. I am sure I would NEVER see that back home--except maybe at a bar..but to see two 'straight' men kiss each other on the cheek, much less hold hands in public? Unheard of...

Mohammed, don't take everything you read on the web as being set in concrete--those of us that have been over in this part of the world know a lot better than some jounalist sitting at his New York Office sipping Starbuck's coffee thinking of shit to type up. He probably never even verified the story he wrote--

Of course, the only way to find out is to come over here and enjoy it for yourselves.....there are plenty of hot men over here that would do ANYTHING to please you!!

David
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Subject: Anal Sex

From: Yng4oldrD@AOL.COM
Anyone know of any website in techniques in anal Sex for novices?
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From: ypvs@freeuk.com

Maybe people on the list could help out here with their own personal experiences?

I for one would be quite interested in finding out any techniques for being 'bottom' as I am currently a total 'top'. I have tried being bottom a few times, but it was so damn painful that it isn't an experience I wanted to repeat.

Can any bottom list members offer advice as to how to get started? Does it get easier with practice? Any do's and don'ts? Are some people destined to never being bottoms?

All you bottoms out there could offer some valuable advice for us bottom virgins!

Hugs,
Chas
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From: "Dave C...." southern_son69@hotmail.com

Hey, all you have to do is ask one of us "tops" to show you how it's done....

BTW, we're like the U.S. Marines, "The Few, The Proud"...

David
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From: "Dave C...." southern_son69@hotmail.com

Chas,
A pretty little thing like you could get into a lot of trouble asking us "sharks" on this list about being a bottom.... :-)

I find having a nice tight arse (as you Brits call it) wrapped around my man-meat to be one of the best feelings in the whole world. I, myself, usually play with the bunghole for a couple of minutes, loosening it up for bigger (and better) things to follow. Once you're nice, hot, and loose, you're ready...

One suggestion is to use plenty of lube--spit won't work as good, but there is KY, Corn Huskers (I had never known of this one until my "mentor" rubbed some on my manmeat and told me what to do with it), and the old standby--Vaseline..

Being that 99.5% of the men I've been with, it seems as though being a "bottom" is more enjoyable that being a "top". I can relate to your final question "Are some people destined to never being a bottom" I think I'm one of those poor souls. I have yet to find somebody that can introduce me to being a bottom.

If you ever come down to Texas, I'd be more than happy to show you a couple of things. I normally don't do "fox hunters", but, you are cute!!!

David "Forever Virgin"..
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From: George of Boston bostbill@ix.netcom.com

Dear Chas,
Do you have any other parts that are still virginal?
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From: ypvs@freeuk.com

Hey Dave,
I KNOW how it is done! The 'top' view is the one I'm familiar with!

Only a bottom would know what it is like to receive, and that was why another list member and myself were asking. Sure I know what it feels like, and how to slide my cock in and out of a silver fox ass, but what I DON'T know is what THEY feel. Or for that matter what they do to prepare to receive a cock.

The only times I have tried anal sex I had no problem getting a cock past my sphincter, it was after that point that I had difficulty. I managed to get a whole cock in but much in the way of movement felt painfull. Even for a few hours afterwards I felt like I had the 'shits' and my ass felt very uncomfortable.

I hasten to add that there was no blood shed so I assume that there are no problems with piles or fissures.

Is this normal? Is the first few times quite painfull until one 'loosens' up? Are there any postions that make it easier?

Lastly, even if I do manage to be a bottom every now and then I am sure my favourite will still be to 'top'. While there are cute chubby silver fox bottoms out there it's hardly surprising!

Hugs,
Chas
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From: "Pewit" pewit@compuserve.com

Chas:
Firstly DO NOT use Vaseline for anal sex as it is a petroleum-based lubricant and weakens the rubber of a condom - which you should be using unless you like playing Russian roulette.

ONLY use water-based (e.g. K.Y) or other non-oil based lubricants (e.g. Silicone-based).

One tip for any virgins is find a partner who has patience and don't rush things. Also use other things to dilate the anus first (e.g. sex toys - with a condom, if it's not your own). Lying on your side is more relaxing than the positions you may have seen in pictures and sitting on top gives you the most control as a beginner.

Here are some websites (not all gay orientated) which might help.
http://www.sexuality.org/l/incoming/analrule.html
http://www.minou.com/aboutsex/analsex.htm
http://www.unrealities.com/adult/ssbb/o.htm
http://sexuality.about.com/health/sexuality/library/howto/htanal.htm

Remember there is advice, and there is good advice.

Regards
Pewit
Editor of The Gray Gay Guide
The online guide to places for mature gay men and their admirers worldwide
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From: Oytz@aol.com

My recommendations for Anal Sex Workshop.

If you want to be fucked:
1). empty your bowels as much as possible;
2). cut the nails on your fingers short;
3). squat in the bathtub ( douche-bidet is better if available) and insert a finger into the anus; any lubrication is OK, including soap;
4). insert two fingers similarly;
5). insert three fingers; it is doubtful you will be lucky enough to be fucked by a cock thicker than 3 fingers;
6). wash and dry;
7). go to the bed and open your ass to the lover.

Sure it is the best to do it immediately before fucking, but I noticed that the ass stays relatively open for 2-3 hours after such procedure.

Oh, how beautiful it is to be fucked by a hard virile cock. Start lying on your back and raising the ass and legs to greet the cock. Let him enter slowly. If it is still painful in the beginning let him withdraw and reenter in 2-3 minutes -- it will be much easier second time. Then start fucking. Sure, he can cum this way. But I like in several minutes to change position without disengaging, carefully turning on the axle of his cock to on-the-stomach position. And after that let him enjoy in full.

My further recommendations are difficult to realize in our times of AIDS and condoms. However if you fuck without a condom for whatever reason (marital fidelity, etc. -- does it exist?), it is so nice if after the ejaculation both of you turn to the right side and go to slip. Next time during the night he swells inside your ass and fucks you couple of times more without ever disengaging, just with the couple intermissions for sleep.

Oh!

After such night of passionate lovemaking you will see the results in your stool for 2-3 times -- and you will like it. Enjoy!
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From: Jack McGee jackmc@rocketmail.com

If you use polyurethane condoms you can use vaseline, crisco, whatever lube you want. It is only the latex ones that come apart when exposed for a while to oil-based lubes. If you like Vaseline (I don't) buy Avanti or one of the other non latex brands, avoiding however lamb condoms which quite possibly let the HIV thru the pores...if you want to use Crisco to fist, there are polyurethane gloves...most of these are designed in theory for people who are allergic to latex, but it works for those who are turned on by the scent or feel of certain oil based lubes.
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From: ypvs@freeuk.com

I absolutely love being 'top', but out of curiosity wanted to understand the bottom role. I'm also aware that there seem to be more bottoms than tops which is kind of handy for me!

Seeing how much enjoyment some bottoms get from sex, I wondered whether I was missing something! Plus as well, it would be nice to be able to be bottom for a silverfox rather than going top all the time.

I feel as well it would help me gain greater insight into pleasing a guy who is bottom if I understood what he desired. 'Expanding my horizons' as someone amusingly put it

However, the thoughts, feelings and sensations of being top with a silver fox chubby means that I reckon that I will always be drawn to being a top. But until I try being bottom I will never know for sure.

Hugs,
Chas
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From: "Tonka" tonka41@btinternet.com

Hello all,
Just a quickie regarding the thread anal sex. My first boyfriend was 36 and i was 17 and i used too fuck him 3 times a day (as only a 17 year can do LOL). He came only once during these wild sessions. I've since discovered that i prefer to be the bottom, but i have never cum while been fucked, i have never even gotton an erection while its happening. Before and after YES but not during. I can only put this down too one thing, the fact that i'm concentrating on what my fella is doing to me rather than thinking about myself. Does this make sense to anyone out there, or am i just weird.:o)

All my best
Tonka
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From: "Jack McGee" jackmc@rocketmail.com

Tonk, several men I know spray all over us without an erection and sometimes without realizing it, because they are so caught up in the sensation of having me inside them. And of course some don't cum from but still enjoy it. I know one guy in El Paso, who moans the whole time about how it hurts, with a big throbbing erections and who sprays the whole world, then gets up and goes home in a huff, because it's been TOO TOO painful and then in a couple of days he writes and wants to know when we can get together again. Go figure. I decided that he was just too weird so I haven't had time to see him lately.
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From: "rvpb5" rvpb5@telocity.com

It works like this:

The Passive Bottom has the Soft Dick and doesn't cum while the Agressive Bottom has the Hard Dick and blows huge wads.

As such it seems as logical as a Vulcan.

I was under a medical impression that the massaging of the prostate with the penis contributes to the erection and ejaculation of the fuckee. I'll bet the passive bottoms would be more agressive if their aggressive tops knew better how to hit their "G" spots.

Are there any Passive Tops to hear from? What's your take on all this?

Picard
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From: George of Boston bostbill@ix.netcom.com

Dear Tonka and the list,

My belief, based on observation, is that guys occur in two flavors when it comes to being fucked: One group can have a hardon while a cock is up his ass, and can come while being fucked. My sense is that this is the smaller group. The other group can not have a hardon while a cock is up his ass, and does not come while being fucked. Both groups can enjoy this type of sex immensely. I do not have any reason to believe that a guy in one group is likely to change over into the other group, but my data is limited on this.

George of Boston.
also known as "Boston Bill".
My web site has information on the CR Cruise in June 2001.
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From: g4jke@ntlworld.com

"Snap", I too prefer to be a bottom and also don't hard whilst being screwed. In everyday life I'm quite assertive and being the recipient during sex makes a wonderful contrast for me and is that much more enjoyable.

It's nice to find others out there with similar tastes,

Derek, London.
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End of silverfoxesclub-digest V1 #145
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