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In this issue:
-Combined threads: Loneliness + On-line vs Real-life (19)
---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Dave C...." southern_son69@hotmail.com Why would it matter what he looks like??????????????? If the man is willing to love you for the rest of your life but you don't find him physically attractive, you wouldn't give him a shot? I have found what people like you consider "ugly ducklings" to be the most warmest people on the planet! Looks do not matter as much as what he is willing to give with his heart, if he looks like Freddy Krueger, big freakin' deal--I'd rather be with him than spend a night with a stranger worrying about what diseases you might contract...Not to mention going home to a lonely bed!!!!!!!!!
Dave
Dave,
1st ."Why would it matter what he looks like??" answer: Because relationships are hard enough, without being attracted to the person I dont see how passion can be present, and without passion it`s a friendship and not a true Love affair! 2nd "if the man is willing to love you for the rest of your life but you don't find him physically attractive, you wouldn't give him a shot?" answer: No, lets say I was approached at a bar, and I didn`t find the man to have a glow about him (i.e i `m attracted to him) I would not give him my # or accept a date.. I just could`nt see the point .. would I still be Friendly to this person, of course .. 3rd I have found what people like you consider "ugly ducklings" to be the most warmest people on the planet! Looks do not matter as much as what he is willing to give with his heart, if he looks like Freddy Krueger, big freakin' deal--I'd rather be with him than spend a night with a stranger worrying about what diseases you might contract...Not to mention going home to a lonely bed!!!!!!!!! answer: Dave that was a cheap shot.. to make a statement on what I might find to be attractive or to comment on what diseases I might catch .. way out of bounds.. My post was about MY OPINION and I did not talk about any level of beauty or sexual frequency ..
Tommy
An interesting and thoughtful message, but I think that the playing field is always at level one.
John
Do I detect a degree contradiction in these two sentances below? Although I agree some peoples list of wants can exclude almost all eligable partners, I think we all have our likes and dislikes. It's interesting that most mature admireres like heavy-set men rather than skiny men (me included), if one goes by the pictures that appear in magazines and on the web - anyone care to comment as to why?
Pewit
But Pewit,
rich
Richard:
Pewit
Ben, Thanks for posting that reply. My reaction was, "Leave that man alone!" Life is difficult enough and trying to "make something work" usually leaves me (and the other person too, I believe) feeling disappointed and down. If looks are part of what turns you on, then it's a good thing to recognize that about yourself and go with it. Every once in a while some other quality about someone will sneak in there and outmaneuver that one and when that happens, most of us just go with it! :O)
John
I have been reading all the letters you guys have been sending, I agree with all y heart. Dave I wrote you a few weeks back and you ask if I had a picture. I did not have a nude so decided I would wait until my friennd that travels on his job to get back in town and take some for me, He is the best young gay friend I have now.I am going to attach a clothed one at the end of this letter I could almost write a book on lonelines, as I lived and loved one man for over 50 years I met him in Wichita, Kansas and after a few years we moved to Arizona and opened a businessand made an agreement that on weekends if we agreed to seperate and each of us go our own ways, which didn't happen too often. We had a plane, a cabin in the mountains,entertained a lot and traveled a lot. Then 6 years ago he passed away' he had a hemrige in his stomach and bled to death, they couldn't put blood back as fast as he was loosing it. That first year was the loneliness year of my life I would meet men that would want my card and stop by once or twice just for sex and some times just for a few beers I spend lots of hours on this list and love the pictures and letters that are posted, If I had to pay Ben for it by the hour I'd be on welfare before the end of the year. I love him with all my heart for what he is doing and all you guys for all the wonderful posting. I enjoy the letters posted by Bob and his wonderful Dog, I also have a white Pekingese that is a lot of company to me. Oh yes I forgot to tell you I will be 83 on May 5th this year and hopeing for many more` Love---Hugs and Kisses I agree a lot with the comments made by Tommy regarding dating over the internet. It is much easier to meet men this way, especially for the many who wouldn't go to bars to find a man. However, it is all to easy to be led into a 'bond' with a guy who not only have you never met but have never seen either. Many times I have had people contact me and tell me that they are just what I am looking for. One then enters into email correspondence in the hope that at last the man of our dreams has turned up. Of course, they never have a picture so you can but imagine that they have read your advert and fit the requirements you desire in a man. After much corresponding the other man finally sends a picture or you get to meet, and it's a huge disappointment that he doesn't match up to the requirements that you seek. What can one do? An emotional bond has been allowed to develop but now you find that as much as you would get along as friends there would be no chance of a relationship because the physical attraction wouldn't be there. A relationship requires attraction on many levels, most importantly in the heart but the physical side plays a very important part too. And as Tommy said, when one has to turn the other party away because the physical side isn't suitable it can make that person look shallow. My view of this is fairly simple. These days I won't enter into much correspondence with a guy without seeing a picture. My picture is normally with my advert, and I am happy to send more to the right guy if he sends me some of himself. If one is to use the net as a way of meeting people, especially when it comes to relationships and sex, then as Tommy says the playing field needs to be level. First and foremost have a picture that you can send to people. There really is no excuse for not having one on a computer these days. Secondly, read the advert FULLY that you are responding too. If he seeks a big guy over 275lbs, don't answer if you are less than 200lbs. of course the opposite applies to. If he seeks a guy over 60 years old, don't answer if you are only 50. You are only wasting your time as well as the his. However, it is fine to send complimentary emails ('I'm not your type, but I like the look/ sound of your advert. Best of luck etc..') and say a bit about yourself. Thirdly, don't play with emotions. Often I have had people tell me that they are so lonely and that I am the only person they correspond with and who listens to them. This is a really big emotional drain on a person who hasn't got all day to act as an agony aunt/ uncle writing in depth emails to someone with whom there is no chance of ever settling down with. My heart strings get tugged, but only because I worry that the person corresponding with me will be upset if I break the communication. My objective is to meet my Mr. Right, not act as a prop for someone I don't know! Put it this way. If a guy came up to you in a bar who wasn't attractive to you, and started telling you that he really fancies you and that he is so lonely that he couldn't live without you, what would you do? Politely but firmly tell him that you are not interested and move on? More than likely! Why should meeting people on the internet be any different? So maybe some 'netiquette' needs to be observed when using the net for dating. Let's make the playing field a level one. If you haven't a picture to send then get one done. It's hardly fair to ask someone else for a picture if you haven't one to send in return. Most importantly of all, read the advert! If he has specific requirements then observe and respect them. How can he respect you if you don't respect him? And to answer another post, yes, looks and physique are very important when considering a relationship. I have friends of all ages, shapes and sizes, but I am particularly drawn to a certain type of man - that of the large, very chubby mature guy over 50. These are MY tastes that have been with me ever since I knew I was gay and was attracted to older men. If someone wants to condemn me for that, then surely I could turn it around and ask where I draw the line? Should I try a relationship with a man of my own age or younger? Should I try a relationship with a very skinny guy despite the fact that I have always liked large chubby men? Perhaps these guys who aren't my type are very nice people, but would it lead to heartache for both when that desire we both seek is not realised? Just a bit of food for thought! Maybe we just need to be more tolerant of other peoples views and tastes. As has been mentioned so many times before, we face enough discrimination and hatred from the straight world without inflicting it on each other. We should all respect our fellow gay men whatever there tastes or preferences. Lastly, have fun and be carefull. Always practice safe sex, and good luck and happy hunting to the many men out there of all ages, shapes and sizes.
Chas
I hope that you guys will forgive me inputting "my two cents" regarding this matter. But, I find the "argument" just a little bit silly. While I agree with Tommy that looks do matter (at least in his case and in mine), I respect that in Dave's case they don't. I'm not sure, but I believe that it may be a matter of simple semantics. I doubt that Tommy (and certainly not myself) would say that we subscribe to the standard American view of what is supposed to be attractive. If we did, the odds are, that we wouldn't be members of this list. However, we each like a certain "type". Probably even a different "type" (I like mature chubs). On the other hand, I believe, that Dave is simply saying that he rejects the stereotypical views of beauty that our society is so fond of promoting. I've read the messages from both camps and when I read between the line I find that we're all in general agreement. We've simply expressed ourselves in different ways. Feel free to mail me privately if I'm wrong in this.
Peace & Love,
Although I met my life partner thru the internet (a personal ad on AOL), I
still had a few bad experiences with internet dating. I made a rule early on
that if I could not talk on the phone with a potential date after a week of
e-mail correspondence, I would break it off right then. I found that for too
many men, especially married closet-cases, their social and sex lives begin
and end at the computer keyboard. Men who would never dream of having an
intimate phone call with another man, think nothing of leading someone else
on behind the anonymity of the internet. After too many broken or dates
which never happen due to not talking to the person ahead of time made me
realize that you really should make sure that you at least know the person is
somewhat local, and capable of having a phone conversation.
Tommy Foxhunter said,
There are many possible facets to this question, aren't there. As to making new friends, I have to give an unqualified yes. As to making new FRIENDS there are qualifications. What's the difference? Friends on the net become that for me because of an emotional or spiritual bond that grows from the exchange of words and thoughts. Many of the men on this list, I consider to be friends even though we have never seen each other and in most likelihood never shall. On the occasions when I have had the opportunity of in person meetings I have almost always been pleasantly greeted by a face that shines with the inner qualities that have made him my friend. Rarely does the person fit my mental image of him but always the eyes show that this is the person I call a friend. So much for the feminine approach to relationship. When it comes to FRIENDS, men with whom I might hope to build a close physical bond, the psychologically more masculine trait of selection by visual stimulus takes over and I do usually require or at least request a picture. I gave up on chat rooms a long time ago because it is so easy to lie about looks. I remember back in the pre www days being on genie in gay chat rooms chatting with people whom I knew I would never meet asking for stats first thing. Tell the truth that you are older and heavy and boom, end of contact. I would usually answer in a smart assed fashion something like. whatever you would like me to be visually I can be in type. I actually still have some friends from those days even though we are definitely not physically desirable to each other. hehe. "I let people into my life much easier over the net than I do in real life (maybe a bad word but you get my point) "
This seems to be a common happening and I do the same. I have thought a
lot about why this is and can only share my own feelings. Even though I
have much theatre experience and am comfortable in front of a group of
people, I still consider myself to be on the shy side and a bit reserved,
(at least for the last 14 years or so since I quit drinking) When chatting
on the internet or exchanging letters I feel more in control of what I say,
and have the time to make sure that what I am writing is precisely what I
want to say. There is an exchange of related monologues and not a true
dialogue on line, at least at the start. There is the safety net of
distance on the net, sometimes almost like the grating in a confessional
where whatever is said or exchanged can only go so far. Heaven forbid
that some of the things we say would be told to someone at home and we
become fodder for the gossip mill.
Sorry if I rambled too much,
dave aka luvhog
p.s.: If after all this anyone is interested. I'm a 55 soon to be 56 year
old, burly bearded bald polar bear that prefers younger men 20-40, smooth to
modertely hairy men for a FRIEND. Prefers interesting, humorous, honest,
men of any age or style for friends.
Ben wrote, "As a man ages he only gets more and more sexually appealing."
Ben, I like you. I really like you. And I agree with that statement. Of
course I can only speak for myself, but of all the hot "silverfoxes"
around(like Jonathan Winters, Ed Asner, Ben Boxer, Wilford Brimley, and so
on), they were attractive in their youth and have only become more so with
age. It even sounds like a generalization, but I have yet to find evidence
to the contrary.
P.S.: About that f**king jackass that blew you off after you bought the
plane ticket to meet him, we can only hope his dick fell off shortly
thereafter.
Did you hear the one about the midget that got clubbed to death at the
nudist colony twist contest?
PolarGizmo
Sir,
From what I've seen, the "young, pretty boys" are the ones who are
contracting and spreading the diseases more so as when compared to an older,
more settled down person (probably what you consider an "ugly duckling").
Some people have a hard enough time not being the perfect weight, not being
as handsome as others, or just being "different" without somebody coming
along and reminding them that there are (younger) people out here that would
rather wait til their "Prince Charming, 23 years old, looks like Fabio"
comes along to sweep you off of your feet rather than have a date with a
"regular" guy.
Of course, you are entitled to your own opinion, that's the reason we have a
voice. Just remember that this listing is composed of mostly lonely older
guys who don't have somebody that comes home to them every night. When one
of us "youngsters" lets all the others know that we're looking for "young
beauty", it just makes them feel bad!
David
Ben,
I love him with all my heart. Next month will
be our 1 year anniversary together, and I couldn't
be happier.
I would like to say to all the List Members that
not every guy just wants sex. I wanted a man that
was kind, caring, loyal and was himself.
So keep looking, there's someone out there for
everyone.
Happy hunting,
Jeff
Funny, I agree with both of you on different levels. I think a physical
attraction is important but it's far from the most important aspect. If
there was no validity to
physical attraction then the person who you're responding to here wouldn't
really be on this particular list. This list fills a particular niche, one
relating to physical
attraction to a specific type of man. That attraction might not be the
standard but it is a physical attraction. I wouldn't consider a relationship
or even a date with
say, a 20something year old man, or even a 40something... But I am friends
with quite a few, obviously. I think the whole thing comes down to a blend
of not
just physical attractiveness but also emotional, intellectual and chemical.
It's probably not very likely that a person is going to find the ideal
partner, but where I
agree with the other gentleman is in the value attributed to each factor. Of
them all the physical is the least important when it comes to a lasting
relationship based on love, respect and compatibility. Not that it isn't
important at all but of all factors, it isn't of the highest importance.
Somehow I think this is what the other gent was trying to say but wound up
putting it all wrong.
Mike
What I don't understand is that the original poster seemed to think this was
something that the "younger" guys do, posting specific requirements and all
that.
I'm sure that's true but that's far from unique to the younger guys ads. I
find that to be the case in almost 90% of the ads placed by older gents as
well. There's
always something about "HT/WT proportional" or "Asian/Philippine" or
"non-smoker only" etc etc... I think that if these guys are so lonely they
aught to cut out
some of their requirements and just see what happens, they might find the
person they want to be with among the guys who aren't built perfectly or who
smoke or
who aren't of a specific race. But if that's what they really require they
shouldn't complain when they don't get a lot of responses. Also, I'm not
sure if you mean that younger guys prefer heavy-set men or if you're saying
that mature guys prefer heavy-set younger men. The wording has me confused.
I've noticed that most older gents have more requirements than the younger
guys. And they usually want a magazine type guy, which is kind of sad.
personally i dont think it matters what one likes or dislikes. if someone is
not attracted to someone, then he needs to accept is place in life and go
for other things if he is so damn lonely. at some point, one has to let go
and do other things that are more procreative than to wait around for
butterman. truth is this....
you the people, can function correctly without anyone. in other words, you dont need anyone to cure your loneliness. in fact it is a natrural law.
someones been spreading the lie that one needs one to be unlonely. thats a lie. all you need to be unlonely is yourself and positive thinking.
without positive thinking, you will die. it is your emotional food. you can
feed your lonely hunger away with your own thoughts and you wont be lonely
anymore.
its the truth....you can take it or leave it.
Truth in advertising yourself via the Internet is a two-way
street. Let me tell you a story about me.
My first days on the Internet opened up a whole new world
for me as they did for us all. I was filled with the wonder
of being globally in touch in the unique manner of the
WorldWideWeb.
I was not necessarily seeking romance, believe it or not,
and frequently said so to men who became interested in me
through my posts on another e-mail list. One man, however,
got through my defenses and opened a door to my heart.
Our cyberspatial relationship progressed in e-mail to the
point that it became apparent that it was time for us to
meet face to face and deal with it as real people rather
than phantoms whose connection to each other was subject to
a switch on or off or a telephone call in one direction or
another.
We shared photographs of each other in the buff. He saw my
nude pictures on the Web. He knew my medical history and I
knew most of his life story. It was time to get together.
There was no doubt of that.
The problem was that we were 3,000 miles apart. This was not
an impossible hurdle. We made arrangements for me to fly to
his city for a long weekend. I was set to arrive on Friday
afternoon. He would pick me up at the airport.
I had the airline ticket sitting beside the computer when I
got an e-mail from him on Thursday night.
"Don't come," it said. "You can never be my lover. You're
too fat for me."
This was a man who had told me of his affairs in the past
with very heavy men and how avoirdupois in his lovers was
essential for him. He had written of the pleasures we would
share in bed. He was better educated than I and wrote
fluidly, with finesse. His command of English was superior.
He had no trouble expressing his deepest thoughts in words.
That ultimately made no difference. What came to matter most
was that he lied.
I recovered, of course. It was the first of many major
lessons I learned in my experience on the Internet, and
perhaps the most important. I never wasted time in idle
conjecture over why he did such a thing. It had been done. I
had been saved from greater possible sorrow in the future
had serious, irrevocable commitments been made.
The lesson I learned is simply this: be truthful in
advertising who and what you are, and what you want or must
have in a relationship. This is not confined only to a
Personal Ad or a Profile, but to any correspondence that
passes between you.
Tell it the way it is, from the beginning. Do not apologize
for your taste or your judgment, but do not try to shovel it
under like a cat covers its own shit. Let it lie open and
exposed if need be. And require the same of him.
There is a section in each Profile at the Clubhouse to state
your dislikes or "pet peeves." That is the most important
blank you can fill in with regard to who you really are. It
is also the first section you should read if you are looking
for someone. Some people don't bother to fill it in. They
really should.
If physical type or appearance matters, it should be made
clear. If fat, femme, proportional size, whatever, matter,
fill it in.
If you are reading a Profile, pay attention to all that it
says.
And be wary if you are told that although you may not match
the type required, you are the exception. A lesson I learned
early in life without benefit of the Internet is that there
are very rarely exceptions to type. Lust may make a
difference, but not forever. I used to be watchful of how
someone I wanted treated the people he knew. A basic truth
is that he will probably treat you the same way someday. If
he is kind and understanding and has relationships that
endure, you may have won the lottery. If he is abusive to
them or off-handed and uncaring, be careful, or you may get
what you deserve.
An incredibly true, thoughtful and wise message. We should
all re-read it
daily. Thank you.
John
What is Black History Month?
During the 1920's an African American named Carter G.
Woodson created and promoted Negro
History Week. This period in February was chosen
because it included the birthdays of Frederick Douglass
and Abraham Lincoln.
In 1976 the month-long celebration was implemented, and
is a time for Americans to reflect on both the history and
teachings of African Americans whose contributions are
still too little known.
We who live in the United States would do well to
remember this 19th-century lyric which was sung along
the dangerous route trod by escaped slaves:
"I'm on my way to Canada,
The lyric ran on to state, that, when the fugitive crosses End of silverfoxesclub-digest V1 #131/2
|
It is the month in which we bear witness to the progress,
richness and diversity of African American achievement.