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Silverfoxesclub-digest
Tuesday, December 5 2000
Volume 01 : Number 066

In this issue:

-Re: I saw "Queer As Folk"
-Gays Find Warm Welcome in a New Jersey Suburb
-CR Cruise Deadlines
-Re: UK version vs The New US Queer as Folk
-Surprise birthday (+ responses)
-Re: [RE: The four stages of life]
-Vicar in Pulpit After Sex Change
-Eyes like piss holes in the snow
-Friendship
-Many, many questions!
-RE: Santa Claus
-Startling news from Japan

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Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 17:38:59 -0000
From: "Pewit"

Subject: Re: I saw "Queer As Folk"

Ben, The US series is based on the UK series which was aired in two sections over the last 2 years.

If they have stuck to the same story line there won't be any foxes, but there will be one married older man who is a client of Stuart (The guy in advertising - I think they changed the names in the US) who wants to go "out" on the town.

Also Stuart's friend (Vince in the UK) has an affair with an older guy (again, not fox material) and they explore some of the issues about gay stereotypes and intergenerational relationships.

Otherwise it's regular Twinkie stuff :-)

Pity they didn't release the UK version in NSTC video format but I am sure the program will have a similar impact in the US.

Pewit
Editor of the Gray Gay Guide
The online guide to places for mature men and admirers world-wide http://www.travel.to/graygayguide.html
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Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 13:15:22 -0500 (EST)
From: Edward

Subject: Gays Find Warm Welcome in a New Jersey Suburb

In today's NY Times.

Edward
-----------------
December 4, 2000

Gays Find Warm Welcome in a New Jersey Suburb
By JANE GROSS

MAPLEWOOD, N.J. - In this suburb, rainbow flags, the symbol of gay pride, flap outside grand Tudors and gracious Colonials, sometimes several per block. At the Maple Leaf Diner, children blowing bubbles in their chocolate milk often have two fathers or two mothers. And at day care centers and Sunday school, there is rarely a class without several children who have same-sex parents.

This Essex County community, and neighboring South Orange, which shares its school system, are considered by scores of real estate brokers and gay homeowners to be the most welcoming suburb in the region for gay men and lesbians. A same-sex couple holding hands on the train platform is a ho-hum event here. Gay families are welcome at neighborhood potluck dinners. And domestic partners are entitled to a family membership at the town pool without discussion.

Of course, there are many gay New Jerseyans living happily in Montclair, Plainfield and Asbury Park, and in other places across the nation, including Takoma Park, Md., and Madison, Wis. But, by most accounts, there is no suburb outside the Bay Area or Los Angeles where same-sex couples are as accepted as they are here.

Dr. Marc Beshar, a dentist, and Charles Lascari, a transplant coordinator at a New Jersey hospital, learned that five years ago, the day after they moved into their English Arts and Crafts-style house just blocks from the quaint village center.

The couple, who had moved from Manhattan while waiting to adopt their first daughter, welcomed a neighbor's invitation to services at St. George's Episcopal Church. The two men, both born Roman Catholic, had abandoned organized religion, but wanted to raise their children within a faith.

The experience at the church, Dr. Beshar said, was profound. "We stood and were introduced as a unified couple," he said. "Never before in a non-gay environment had I been treated as normal, just like everybody else. It made me go `Wow!' "

Time has not dimmed their enthusiasm. "We never, ever think of ourselves as exceptional or unusual here," said Dr. Beshar, as Olivia, 5, and Ana, 4, climbed into his lap for a game of patty-cake.

Nobody knows how many gay families live in Maplewood and South Orange, but a stroll in either village suggests that many do, and they go about their daily routines as openly as they might in Chelsea or West Hollywood. The difference is that this is not a gay ghetto, but rather a place where sexual orientation is not the defining fact of life.

"Living in a neighborhood, among everyone else, is what we wanted," said Jerry Clifford, who teaches physics at Fairleigh Dickinson University. His social life, along with that of his partner, B. J. Fan, a scientist, is centered in their neighborhood, where there is one other gay couple. On the third Friday of each month, for instance, the entire neighborhood turns out for a rotating potluck.

That the gay families here want to be part of the community, not stand outside it, has blunted the occasional reservations of old-timers. "They're living here to live here, not to be confrontational or group together for parades," said Charles Bibbins, 68, a retired cosmetics executive. "Not making an issue of it or wearing a badge is the best way to break down potential hostility."

Ignorance is more common than overt antagonism, many here say. Some older people do not understand what "partner" means, for instance, and persist in asking about a neighbor's husband or wife. Others, sounding less than embracing, say that "they don't bother us," with a whisper of otherness in the word "they."

There also is an appreciation, even if grudging, for neighbors with the means to improve their houses and thus real estate values. "We could do a lot worse," said Don Aukamp, 63, a retired insurance agent. "They're mostly very wealthy and well-educated. They're not on welfare. And they keep the prices of the houses up."

Gay couples and their families say their comfort level here is related to the fact that Maplewood and South Orange have long been a haven for urban refugees from Park Slope and Hoboken, for artists and musicians, for interracial couples and for black and white professionals determined not to let the racial balance in their neighborhoods tip, as it has in neighboring Newark and Irvington.

"We were very careful about where we chose to live," said Mark Hoebee, associate director of the Paper Mill Playhouse in Millburn, who lives here with his partner, Larry Elardo, a commercial real estate agent; their 2-year-old son, Stephen; and Sylvester, their cat. "We needed a very diverse community with a variety of alternative families - mixed religions, mixed races, blended families - because we knew that would be a supportive place."

Originally, gays were attracted to nearby Montclair, a community known for its tolerance. But home prices there spiked and a local gay real estate broker, Jaan Henry, spread the word that a buyer could get more house for the money, a cozy village ambience, cosmopolitan amenities, a half-hour commute and diversity in Maplewood or South Orange.

"Initially it was spillover from Montclair," said Ellen Greenfield, chairwoman of the docent program at the Newark Museum, who moved from Hoboken with her husband and children and then urged many of her gay friends to follow. "Now it's become a destination on its own."

A compelling magnet is the Episcopal church here, which has 30 years of history as a hospitable place for gays and lesbians. Long before it was common, St. George's welcomed gay organizations, including Dignity, a group for gay Roman Catholics, to meet in its space.

From 1993 to 1999, the congregation was led by Barry Stopfel, an openly gay priest, whose ordination led to a high-profile ecclesiastical trial in which the ordaining bishop was cleared of heresy charges. The current rector, Todd Smelser, is also openly gay, and the church quietly performs lesbian and gay unions.

The heresy trial drew hordes of reporters and camera crews to St. George's, Sunday after Sunday. What they found, according to Ulysses Dietz, the curator of decorative arts at the Newark Museum and an active member of the church, was a decidedly mixed group, including he and his partner, Gary Berger, a computer programmer, and their two adopted children, Alex and Grace, both 5; Mr. Lascari and Dr. Beshar and their girls; straight families with children; and retirees.

"They saw we were all kissing each other at the peace," Mr. Dietz said. "Just a parish church acting like a parish church. It put us on the map."

Another attraction is the Community Coalition of Maplewood/South Orange, a group that promotes integrated neighborhoods by giving low-interest loans to black families buying houses in the traditionally white west side of town and vice versa. The coalition, supported by both municipalities to forestall white flight, advertises the joys of living here in urban newspapers. Anyone who answers the ads receives a folder of information, with photos of gay families, among others, on its cover.

For some gay couples with children, the racial diversity is not an attraction in its own right but a signal of what sort of place this is, a "community marker," in the words of Elizabeth Kaeton, an Episcopal deacon, who moved here with her partner and their five grown children after living a "discreet" life in East Orange. There, she said, they kept conversation "light and impersonal because we didn't want people to know too much." Here, she said, she feels no such inhibitions.

For other gay couples, a racially diverse community is essential because they have adopted nonwhite children. That is the case for Beverly Heath, a substitute teacher, whose 11-year-old daughter, Annie, is half Middle Eastern and half Hispanic, and changes her mind frequently as to whether she is black or white.

"For two white women with a mixed-race child, this is a perfect place," Ms. Heath said, as Annie downed a Burger King fish sandwich and a root beer before racing off to a cello lesson and basketball practice.

Ms. Heath and many lesbian couples here live in modest homes, in working-class neighborhoods, while the men more often live in the hilly estate areas. Ms. Henry, the real estate broker, attributes this to the discrepancy between the incomes of men and women, and to the seeming fondness of gay men, especially those without children, for renovating stately old mansions.

Another broker, Roy Scott, has redone and resold a half-dozen homes in the exclusive Montrose area of South Orange and now shares a nine-bedroom Georgian Colonial with his partner and a live-in housekeeper. Nearby, in a 5,300-square-foot center hall Colonial, Jim Skelley, a hospital administrator, and Warren Leonard, who runs a nonprofit association, are two and a half years into a renovation, with no end in sight. Their current project is refinishing the 20 doors on the second floor.

Most couples with children, be they male or female, live more modestly. Mr. Lascari and Dr. Beshar, for instance, came to the suburbs before adopting their children so they could spend less time working, a luxury they could not afford in New York City. Dr. Beshar practices only four days a week and takes Ana to her Friday violin lesson. Mr. Lascari, a stay-at-home dad for four years, now telecommutes often so he can watch Olivia's ballet class or take her to the doctor.

Many, although not all, of Maplewood's heterosexual residents say they enjoy the unconventional mix of their community. Martha Gardner, a parishioner at St. George's, is gratified that her daughter Sara is having stereotypes shattered by baby-sitting for the Lescari-Beshar girls. Barbara Heisler-Williams, former director of the Community Coalition, said her children have so many friends from two-dad or two-mom families that they do not understand why anyone considers it a big deal.

Pethrine Thompson, the nanny who cares for Mr. Elardo's and Mr. Hoebee's son, says she has learned that the things she was told about gay people in her native Trinidad - "that they're not normal, molest children and all that bad stuff" - are not true. Mr. Skelley and Mr. Leonard's neighbors take pride in being hip enough to know the significance of a rainbow flag. And Mr. Scott enjoys a budding friendship with a Mormon family on his block.

The gay families are part of the fabric of life in Maplewood in ways great and small. A domestic violence task force added a training session on abuse in same-sex couples. A photo exhibit of gay families was displayed at the high school. A local Boy Scout troop sent a letter of protest to the national officials about the exclusion of gay scout leaders. A village patisserie, owned by a heterosexual woman, has a rainbow decal on the door.

High on a hill with splendid views of the Verrazano-Narrows and Goethals Bridges, Mr. Dietz and Mr. Berger, 20-year-residents, describe themselves as homebodies who wanted the whole house-yard-dog thing long before it was popular in their circles. They doubted "there'd be any community for us here," Mr. Dietz said, "so we tried to be part of the community we were in."

They walked Penny, their poodle, at night, whistling the "Leave It to Beaver" theme. They joined the pool, were active at church and adopted two children. By then, the strange had become normal. Alex was one of four children in his preschool class with gay parents. There was no need to talk to the teacher about how to handle Mother's Day because she already knew several solutions, like having the children make cards for their grandmothers.

"If we'd have chosen a different town," Mr. Dietz said, "we might have lived our lives the same way, but without the same comfort."
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 14:13:40 -0500
From: George of Boston

Subject: CR Cruise Deadlines

Dear Friends,

Please be aware of the deadlines coming up for the CR Cruise on the ship Fascination in June 2001. You can find the details on cabins and prices on my web site: http://bostbill.home.netcom.com

Not to put any ideas in your head, but this will be an older-younger gay crowd on a ship with lots of older married men (with their wives, of course). These men may seem straight. Our gay group will dine together and have a few activities together, but most of your time will be yours to play.

Reservations are being handled by a full service travel agency incorporated and licensed in the state of Ohio, Always Travel, Inc. The agency is owned by my sister and me and her children. We are very gay friendly. You already know that this owner is gay.

BOOKING DEADLINE FOR CR GROUP PRICES:
4 PM EASTERN TIME ON THURSDAY DEC 28.
Please call toll-free 888-466-2929 from 9 to 5 Eastern time Monday to Friday through 12/28 and ask for my sister Dorothy at the office of Always Travel, Inc.

If you want to go on this cruise, or even think you may want to go, your deposit of $400 is due now. Carnival Cruise Lines will reclaim all the unused cabins reserved for the CR group at the end of this month. After this month, the price will increase, assuming there is space available. This is not a safe assumption.

Therefore, my advice to you is to book now! Then cancel if necessary at the Always Travel office by 4pm Eastern time on April 13, 2001. There will be a $100 cancellation charge if you do cancel by this date. After that, the cost of cancellation is increases rapidly.

Cabins are still available in all categories, but only two cabins are left in the most desirable category. Each cabin has two bunks. If you need a roommate, we will do our best to match you by non-smoking or smoking preference and by older or younger preference. But we are not a dating service, so you will be better pleased if you find your own roommate by asking some mailing list for candidates.
------------------------------
George of Boston.
also known as "Boston Bill".
P.O. Box 261, Boston, MA 02122 USA

My web site http://bostbill.home.netcom.com has information on the CR Cruise in June 2001.
------------------------------

Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 01:37:52 -0000
From: "J T"
Subject: Re: UK version vs The New US Queer as Folk

is there any place to get a copy of the tape? British or American version.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 20:38:28 -0800
From: "Ben Boxer"

Subject: Surprise birthday

In an interview, one of the actors in "Queer As Folk," the new Showtime TV series idea (borrowed from the UK) about swinging gays, said that in his previous movie he played a martial artist who excelled at KICKING ass, whereas in his role as a gay young man in "Queer As Folk," he is now LICKING ass."

I would like to start at this end of his acting spectrum and kick somebody's cute little ass before I start licking it.

I am talking about my friend and your fellow list member Edward of Brooklyn, previously of Hong Kong, ski enthusiast, general sportsman, computer whiz, buddy (not partner) of the famous CR model Boston Bill and assorted other stars of the Silverfoxes Syndrome, regular contributor of interesting postings to this list, and HTML expert for Ben Boxer's Silverfoxes Clubhouse who assists in the preparation of Michael's Twin Peeks column, plus other projects. He is a busy son-of-a-bee!

It just came to my attention that today (Monday, Dec. 4) is Edward's birthday. Surprise! Not to him, but to me! Someone told me he was celebrating it on another list. Well, Edward, here's a kick in the butt for not letting us in on the good news, too!

Twenty-eight today! Still just a baby by silverfoxy standards, but fully equipped to make an older man happy -- or older MEN, as you wish!

Happy birthday, Edward! Now I will give you a good lickin' to assuage the pain of the kick!

SMOOCH!

Ben Boxer
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 09:23:19 -0500 (EST)
From: Edward

Subject: RE: Surprise Birthday

Thanks Ben.

Even though I am officially one year older, don't feel any changes.

Never really celebrate brithdays in my family, unless they are for kids or adults over 70. This is especially the case since my birthday is on the 4th and my oldest brother's birthday is on the 5th, so we would always have joint birthdays.

Friends can't even arrange a bday dinner for me because I will be out of town very soon for most of this month! They will just have to wait!

Officially, this is what I did for my birthday:
- - went to work
- - got my haircut after work
- - went home
- - had dinner with Mom
- - watched a movie
- - went online
- - went to bed

Talk about an eventful birthday!!!!

Edward
------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 07:29:49 -0500
From: George of Boston

Subject: Re: Surprise birthday

Dear Ben,

In case you can't make the trip to Edward's city in the near future, I will do the preliminary lickin' for you. We wouldn't want him to forget what a good lickin' feels like, would we?
--------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 11:45:29 -0500 (EST)
From: Edward

Subject: Re: Surprise birthday

oooooooohhhhhhhhhhh!

Anyone else that would like to preform a preliminary licking is more than welcome to do so!!!

Edward
--------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 00:06:41 -0800
From: "Ben Boxer"

Subject: Vicar in Pulpit After Sex Change

Ben Boxer says: The last line in the article below gives me a giggle: "The opportunities are extremely limited as a parish priest to appear in female dress." I not only giggle, but also disagree. One of my brothers is an Episcopal priest. He sweeps onstage (oops!) in swirling vestments of shining, gold-trimmed satin not looking overbearingly masculine to me.

Bruno, eight-year-old boy and central character in Shirley McLaine's delightul movie of that name, says in defense of his habit of crossdressing, "Even the Pope wears a dress!" He proceeds to prove it in the final scene when he rushes into the open arms of the Pontiff and gets a big hug and a kiss. Both are dressed in virginal white gowns.

Headline:
Vicar in Pulpit After Sex Change
(PlanetOut, 12/04/00)

Text:
In her comeback sermon the Church of England's first transsexual cleric rested on the assurance that Pooh would say that she too was all right.

There was a long standing ovation December 3 as the Reverend Carol Stone delivered her first sermon since undergoing sex reassignment surgery, becoming the first known transsexual cleric in the Church of England. When Stone last conducted a service at St. Philip's Church in Upper Stratton, Swindon, Wiltshire three months before, it had been as the Reverend Peter Stone. But while more than 100 parishioners were present to support and welcome back their pastor of four years, one elderly woman called out, "You are the work of the Devil, go to Hell!" and similar comments until she was escorted out. Stone dedicated prayers to those unable to accept her. She said after the service that, "Inside me there is a deep peace and wholeness I never had before."

Stone told the congregation that, "After almost 23 years of preaching I felt like a young curate again preparing for one's first sermon." She confessed, "This sermon hasn't been just three months in the making. If the truth be told, I've been waiting to write it for the best part of 46 years [referring to her age] -- never dreaming that one day I might. Last night, I came into church and stood here and tried to imagine you all and how it would be. I couldn't imagine where the strength would come from." She recounted a passage from the series of children's books about Winnie-the-Pooh in which the bear feels that everyone but he is "all right" until the boy Christopher Robin reassures him, and added, "If Pooh were here today, I'd like to think he would say the same about me -- that I too was all right, as indeed you are."

Stone, who in 1979 won a National Broadcasting Award from the Sandford St. Martin Trust for her radio work, held a news conference November 28. There she said, "I have only two vocations in my whole life. They are to be a priest and to be a woman. My last prayer at night [while growing up] was that I'd wake up a girl. My first reaction after it all [the surgery] was 'thank goodness.' Before, there was a deep pool of suffering and sadness, but now I feel that whole period of my life is finished with. ... I am just thrilled to be me. I have a wonderful congregation." Stone has also had support from her mother and from her 18-year-old daughter (Peter Stone was twice married and divorced).

Stone's superior, Bishop of Bristol Barry Rogerson, had discussed Stone's impending surgery with the congregation in June, after finding no reason she should not continue her work and obtaining approval from the highest levels of the Anglican Church. The usual requirement of living in one's chosen gender before surgery was abbreviated in Stone's case, because as Stone remarked in June, "The opportunities are extremely limited as a parish priest to appear in female dress."
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 00:06:17 -0800
From: "Ben Boxer"

Subject: Eyes like piss holes in the snow

I intercepted a posting on the way into Michael's Twin Peeks column at the Silverfoxes Clubhouse and checked it out. You might enjoy it, too. It's an online dictionary of English slang and colloquialisms used in the United Kingdom. You chaps in the UK should find it fun. Just don't stay up all night reading it. You'll end up with "eyes like piss holes in the snow" (listed in the above dictionary under "e")! http://www.peevish.co.uk/slang/
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 10:51:34 -0500
From: "luvhog"

Subject: Friendship

OATH TO MY FRIEND

When you are scared,........... I will laugh at you and tease you about it every chance I get.

When you are worried,...........I will tell you how much worse it could be and to quit complaining.

When you are sad,................I will get you drunk and help you plot revenge against the scum sucker who made you sad.

When you are confused,........I will use little words to explain it to your dumb ass.

And when you are lost,..........I will answer my cell phone and give you directions.

When you are sick.................I will hold your hair while you pay homage to the porcelain god.

When you fall........................I will point and laugh at your clumsy ass.

This is my oath......................I pledge till the end. Why you may ask?.............. Because you're my friend. And the whole reason people have friends is to have fun!

------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 05:18:09 -0500 (EST)
From: Robert Feinstein

Subject: Many, many questions!

I am truly gratified that a man who had gender reassignment surgery is allowed to continue being a priest, and I'm somewhat shocked, because people can be so cruel in confronting differences. I have a question about this surgery: is it obvious from looking that this person is not a biological woman? And, would the vaginal area be very different, or scarred up? /Have any of you ever met a person who had this kind of surgery, or known a person before and afterward? Can they truly find happiness with the pressure of others that this is wrong? Is it more common for men to reassign as women than the other way around? Is the operation very painful? I know very little about this topic, but would like to know more. Do some women reassign as men? Wouldn't this be more difficult? And lastly, is this need to reassign because of biology, or because of circumstances?

Bob the questionbox and Harley who knows all things
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 09:26:45 -0500 (EST)
From: Edward

Subject: RE: Santa Claus

And what a nice Santa Claus too!!! Wish I had him to unwrap as my birthday present!! hehe

Edward
- --------------
Clark wrote:
Here's a Santa Claus for ya. Old. Cute. Eternally youthful.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 08:18:50 -0800
From: "Ben Boxer"

Subject: Startling news from Japan

Did you hear that Japan is sending Florida nine tons of Viagra? They heard that Florida was having trouble with its erection!

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End of silverfoxesclub-digest V1 #66
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